"Duplicates"

[jasoyeom]

Hi, I found a frequency in one of my locations that I submitted for the database for my county. I was told it was already listed in the "Retail" section which is page that lists frequencies for common services in different locations and it would not be listed under the location I found it because it already existed in the "Retail" section. I believe that the frequency should be listed under the location it was found so that other people will see that it's in use for that location. It should also be listed there so it can be downloaded to your scanner through Freescan or Sentinel etc. If I look at a specific location I would expect that it would list all active frequencies in that location.
For example: If McDonald's is using 453.3450 in Simcoe, Ont (Norfolk County) it should be listed for that location even though it's listed under "Retail" which is not location specific. Why can't it be listed in both listings? I would think that specific location listings would have all frequencies listed for that location regardless if they are listed in other non-specific location listings.

 

[mciupa]

Well, since this has been taken from private discussion to public, let's let everyone have some context here.

Your submission is to have the SportChek Manager Ch. 2 listed in your county. It is exactly the same DPL as the Multiple Locations listing.

Big Box Stores

Multiple Locations

Frequency	Input	License	Type	Tone	Alpha Tag	Description	Mode	Tag
462.67500			BM	74.4 PL	Bath Body Works	Bath & Body Works	FMN	Business
451.18750			BM	134 DPL	H&M 1 Team	H&M Ch. 1 Team Members	FMN	Business
458.66250			BM	114.8 PL	H&M 2 Mgrs	H&M Ch. 2 Managers	FMN	Business
458.66250			BM	174 DPL	HomeSense	HomeSense	FMN	Business
458.66250			BM	364 DPL	NR 1 Team	Nordstorm Rack - Ch.1 Team Members Floor	FMN	Business
469.26250			BM	263 DPL	NR 2 Manager	Nordstrom Rack - Ch.2 Managers	FMN	Business
458.66250			BM	67.0 PL	Old Navy	Old Navy	FMN	Business
469.26250			BM	026 DPL	SportChek 1 Team	SportChek Ch. 1 Team Members	FMN	Business
458.66250			BM	026 DPL	SportChek 2 Mgr	SportChek Ch. 2 Managers	FMN	Business
458.66250			BM	114.8 PL	The Gap	The Gap

If your submission had a different PL/DPL it would list it in your county.

 

[jasoyeom]

If it has multiple locations then it's removed from the location it was received in and listed in the multiple locations area instead? If it's listed in multiple locations then we don't know which locations it's being used.

 

[jasoyeom]

Frequencies should be listed in the location they are being used so they are known when someone looks at that location. All SportCheck stores may not use the same frequencies. What's the point of having locations if they don't list all the known frequencies for that location? How many other frequencies are missing from the locations in the database? It makes them less accurate and unreliable.

 

[a417]

If they're not specific to a site, and not submitted to the DB...that is why they are "less accurate and unreliable". This is exactly how/why 'Multiple Locations' works.

[sidebar]I look at those frequencies and cringe, all that co-channel stuff hiding behind DPLs. [/sidebar]

 

[jonwienke]

If you don't like the "multiple locations" hack, then you need to create a separate database entry for each location a frequency is used, complete with location coordinates and service radius. That can be a LOT of work.

 

[mciupa]

The guidelines I work with are this:

In general, a frequency with a given usage shall never be entered more than once in the database. Do not duplicate “wide area” use frequencies on multiple county pages.

Frequencies that are used across multiple counties within a province/state shall generally be consolidated on a province/state-level agency page. Don’t make more work for yourself – if it’s used in multiple counties don’t enter it separately in each county!

Please edit your own programming to your liking. Thank you for your understanding.

 

[RaleighGuy]

Not all information is exactly where you think! It's a good idea to "search" for information like frequencies in multiple places. Sometimes the tower location or control point isn't where the radio is being used, other times it might be listed under a parent company name, or licensed to a subcontractor. Point being, if you really are interested in finding frequencies you should be looking in "multiple locations" and other places.

 

[jasoyeom]

If you don't like the "multiple locations" hack, then you need to create a separate database entry for each location a frequency is used, complete with location coordinates and service radius. That can be a LOT of work.

Wouldn't that be the same amount of work for a single frequency in a specific location?

If Canadian Tire is listed in two locations in one County does that mean it has to be removed and added to the 'multiple locations' database? Then you won't know if it's active for those locations anymore and not all Canadian Tire stores use the same frequencies. If a frequency and CTSS tone is used by the same company in two counties does that mean they have to be removed and added to 'multiple locations' database?
'Multiple locations' is not accurate as it doesn't list what locations they are being used in. What's wrong with having a duplicate frequency listed in several locations? Trunking sites like Fleetnet, RCMP etc are in multiple locations and are still listed in the specific locations.

If a school bus company is listed as being in several towns in a county is that wrong as well? It's being duplicated and I've seen that in the database. Should a submission of a frequency be for the tower location (if known) or the area for which is covers? ie County Wide.

 

[jasoyeom]

Not all information is exactly where you think! It's a good idea to "search" for information like frequencies in multiple places. Sometimes the tower location or control point isn't where the radio is being used, other times it might be listed under a parent company name, or licensed to a subcontractor. Point being, if you really are interested in finding frequencies you should be looking in "multiple locations" and other places.

There are several frequencies under the 'Retail' database or 'multiple locations' but how does one know which locations it belongs to?

 

[RaleighGuy]

There are several frequencies under the 'Retail' database or 'multiple locations' but how does one know which locations it belongs to?

By listening that's how you discover what is what in the radio world.

 

[jasoyeom]

If they're not specific to a site, and not submitted to the DB...that is why they are "less accurate and unreliable". This is exactly how/why 'Multiple Locations' works.

[sidebar]I look at those frequencies and cringe, all that co-channel stuff hiding behind DPLs. [/sidebar]

How do you submit a frequency to 'multiple locations' then?

 

[jasoyeom]

By listening that's how you discover what is what in the radio world.

I understand that but one would think that if a frequency is found for that location and submitted by a member it would be listed under that location. I searched and found some frequencies but some were rejected for already being in the database under 'multiple locations' so it was not added to the specific location. I guess I expected that a web site that has a database of frequencies for locations would have all of them listed for a specific location for which they belong.

 

[RaleighGuy]

I understand that but one would think that if a frequency is found for that location and submitted by a member it would be listed under that location. I searched and found some frequencies but some were rejected for already being in the database under 'multiple locations' so it was not added to the specific location. I guess I expected that a web site that has a database of frequencies for locations would have all of them listed for a specific location for which they belong.

Sounds like what you want is someone to hand you all the answers. Part of the fun in the scanning hobby is the hunt for the target!

 

[jasoyeom]

I presume that this should not be listed since it's a frequency listed in 'multiple locations'

Simcoe

Frequency	License	Type	Tone	Alpha Tag	Description	Mode	Tag
413.53750		RM	107.2 PL	OPP BEAT01	OPP Rebroadcast - 1OPS15	FMN	Law Dispatch

Frequency	License	Type	Tone	Alpha Tag	Description	Mode	Tag
412.88750		BM	107.2 PL	OPP BEAT02	OPP BEAT02 Repeater of 1OPS15 Port Dover	FMN	Law Dispatch

 

[a417]

When you submit the information you state that it's used in multiple locations.

And I don't understand your cherry-picked post about what appears to be 2 separate frequencies of separate rebroadcasts...?

 

[jasoyeom]

When you submit the information you state that it's used in multiple locations.

And I don't understand your cherry-picked post about what appears to be 2 separate frequencies of separate rebroadcasts...?

How does one know it's being used in their location if it's under 'multiple locations'?

They are listed in the OPP Repeater database for multiple locations so why they are allowed to be duplicated in their current location is what I don't understand.

 

[a417]

Ah.

You don't like that someone shot down your submission that was listed in "Multiple Locations", and now you're going to go find every multiple listing for geographic locations (like the OPP regions posting) and question its legitimacy.

@mciupa has stated his point, and he is a DB guy...so, there's your answer.

Have a good one.

 

[jasoyeom]

Not at all. I just think that if you are looking at a database for specific information that all information should be listed in the area it belongs to. What's the point of a location based database if you can't find all the information for a specific location?

The OPP Repeaters are just an example of frequencies that are already listed in 'multiple locations' yet it's still listed in specific locations. What makes them different?

I'm not trying to be difficult. If a new user looks at a specific location they would expect all known frequencies in the database to be listed there. When downloading the specified location to their scanner it won't include 'multiple locations' frequencies. What's wrong with duplicating a frequency so that it's included in the area that it's being transmitted from? I would think this is important considering the databases can be downloaded by several programs and scanners.

I'd like to hear from the Database Admins who created those guidelines.

 

[sfd119]

Why is this so hard? Your question has been answered. If you don't like the rules here, move along to another site or start your own?