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Economics of Private trunked systems

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KevinC

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Back in the day the shop I worked for got a free 10 channel 900 MHz LTR system (repeaters, combiner, RXMC, validator, coax and antennas) from a manufacturer (which no longer is in the LMR market). All they asked was we agreed to purchase x numbers of radios from them to load the system. We made money from the sales and install as well as maintenance of the system and they collected the airtime funds. Of course along came Nextel and they offered them a lot of money for their licenses and poof went the system.
 

Echo4Thirty

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Back in the day the shop I worked for got a free 10 channel 900 MHz LTR system (repeaters, combiner, RXMC, validator, coax and antennas) from a manufacturer (which no longer is in the LMR market). All they asked was we agreed to purchase x numbers of radios from them to load the system. We made money from the sales and install as well as maintenance of the system and they collected the airtime funds. Of course along came Nextel and they offered them a lot of money for their licenses and poof went the system.

A lot of those 800MHz system owners made boatloads of money off the Nextel license deal. Enough to build UHF LTR systems (and eventually NXDN and Connect + ones as well) and still have money in their pockets. There was one idiot in St John's FL that told them to pound sand and kept his SMR up. Well until all of his users went to nextel anyway. Dumb!
 

PACNWDude

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So, like Project25_MASTR, I run a trunked system. It's for a large agency, but large agencies are like small cities, so it translates pretty well.

I figure I put about $300K into my system. I was able to reuse some items left over from the old system (tower, feedline, etc), but $300K resulted in a new site.
That's a lot of money.
Scale it down to one repeater, like a small business would use, that's still a heck of a lot of money for Joe-Bob's plumbing service.

So, take Joe-Bob's plumbing, Billy Joe's towing, and 20-30 other small businesses with catchy names and each one needs to put up a single repeater. That's a few million in equipment, radio sites, etc. Most of those repeaters are not being used at any given time. They are sitting idle until Cletus needs a new left handed toilet flange. Then a minute or two of traffic, then nothing...

Or take a trunked system, Take 6-7 repeaters, hook them up to a trunk controller. Give those 30+ business a talk group on the system. Now instead of a million or so bucks in repeaters, Matt's repeater service sunk $300K into the trunked system. He sells each company a talkgroup (or two) on the system at $12.50/radio per month. Oh, and that same guy sells them the radios.

Now each company gets what they need without the huge upfront investment and ongoing maintenance. Those costs are spread amongst 30+ companies. Due to the nature of the trunked system and channel loading, each company thinks they have their very own private radio system. But those of us in the know understand that we're just reselling the unused airtime to a bunch of different users and laughing all the way to the bank. (not really…)

So, a trunked system just spreads the cost around to a lot of users. The channel loading calculations make it so 99.99% of the time, the system has free space to support a user. Periodically (a few times a year) someone keys up and gets bonked because there is no repeater available. Wait 5 seconds for a user to unkey, and it's freed up.

So, my $300K spread across 450+ users with each radio paying about $12.50/month covers all my costs, salary, electricity, spare parts, emergency repairs, cold beer, etc.
And each of those companies is happy that they don't have to pay $100K + for their own repeater, plus all the costs of upkeep, repairs, electricity, deal with licenses, etc. They get to spread that $12.50 a month out and it's not such a big investment.

Of course, as others have pointed out, cellular has taken a HUGE bite out of those systems. Most people don't want to carry a radio around when they can do essentially the same thing on their cell phone. And who can blame them. 99.9% of the time, the cellular system works just fine, and has way better coverage than a trunked radio system will for most users. The costs are cheaper, plus you can play angry birds on your phone, but not on your radio.

The benefit to the trunked system is that it can be designed to be more reliable than a cellular system. It can provide coverage into areas where the cell carriers think there are not enough users to justify the cost of building out a cell site. And you can control access to you limit access to just those that need access, and not every kid with an iPhone trying to stream Tic-Tok videos.

The truth is that as cellular systems grow and there's more and more bandwidth, they are a much better solution for many non-public safety users. You can do a lot more with a cell phone than you can with a radio, and the costs of the infrastructure get spread out across more and more people.

Your milage may vary, void where prohibited, not valid in some states, and sure to piss someone off.
I'm in the same situation, 52 sites (as in cities, not RF sites) with analog conventional, ASTRO P25 Phase 1 and 2, and Trbo systems in use. Overall, internal corporate use is only at about 30% capacity, which is unheard of for some of our interoperability partners in the public sector. They have to justify every repeater, and monitor its usage at or above 65-75% to justify budget, personnel and other overhead. I sit around 30% and state that we could sell capacity and pay for the infrastructure a bit. We purchase subscriber radios, infrastructure, and do not rent, which could be cheaper....and internal IT/Radio Services separation means no LTE or PTT over LTE. However, in emergencies having a true P25 trunked system has been a benefit during many hurricanes, and floods. Total users is about 25,000 (including all 52 sites users) spread across the nation. I am not including China and India, as they are NOT connected to the ASTRO core (we combine Trbo networks to the Astro core, while Motorola cringes), as we found a technological, work around that allows for this.
 
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krokus

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I am curious about routine system loading, what is minimum and maximum considered acceptable? At which point do you decide to add RF assets to the system?
 

KevinC

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I am curious about routine system loading, what is minimum and maximum considered acceptable? At which point do you decide to add RF assets to the system?

I seem to recall the old rule was 70 "mobiles" per frequency for SMR systems. But don't hold me to that.
 

mmckenna

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I am curious about routine system loading, what is minimum and maximum considered acceptable? At which point do you decide to add RF assets to the system?

Yeah, I forget off the top of my head, but what KevinC said sounds familiar. I know I've got around 450 users on 5 channels (4 traffic/1 control), but our users are spread out really well with time of day usage. Haven't had any bonks in a while.
 

Project25_MASTR

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70 to 80 users per channel is the general rule of thumb. Now if you really want to get into the math...Engset formula which determines the probability of blocking (GoS) and uses some pretty annoying sums and Gaussians (but there's a Python library which can handle it pretty easily) and it takes into account the average call length (20 seconds for most public safety users), call arrival rate (going to depend on the number of users and talk groups in reality) and the number of channels available. Granted, planning for a wide area system is going to be completely different due to how wide area trunking actually functions.
 
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Mr Elang's theory went to pot in my high school days when we had a snow day and school was closed. Back in the corded phone days I can remember picking up the phone and waiting a couple of minutes to get dial tone since we were all trying to call each other to find something to do.
My dad told me his home was 2 longs and a short ring on the party line. Can you imagine texting with a rotary dial?
 

captaincab

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I have a friend who runs a small a,balance transport service 3 ambulances 3 wheel chair vans he is on a local dmr system pays 35.00 a month per radio. Has basic encryption works great for him because his crews go into the western end of Pennsylvania from the local Philadelphia area their are spots in Lancaster County or Bert’s County or York or even further like Adams county where cell phones still don’t always work but that radio does.
 
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