Fight Against Encryption

[jcardani]

Dugan,

Many people know me on Radio Reference and they would not call me arogant. Passonate yes, but not arrogant. There were some useless comments in this thread and I was only sounding off and embarrassed about them. Bolt21 wanted only postive suggestions from Florida residents, he mentioned that earlier. I did apologize to zz - I did not mean to direct my comments to him.

Bolt has a very difficult task ahead of him and I wish him the best. I gave him some good suggestions on how to proceed. That's all he really wants to know.

I am not surprised when people express an opinion that may digress slightly from the intention of the thread. I am not surprised that people have passionate opinions about safety, privacy, security and freedom of information. It is the height of arrogance when someone declares that they are embarrassed by other people’s ernest opinions and ideas.

Everyone who has contributed to this forum has read all sorts of new ideas and if they are even the least bit open-minded about things, they may come away with a more complete understanding of the issues. I see it as a good start and nothing to be embarrassed about.

Now that this discussion is out of the way, anyone interested in proceeding might start a new thread with a more specific heading and well defined thesis in his first post and see how that goes.

 

[jcardani]

Here's another constructive idea.

Educate the law enforcement powers about the benefits of keeping dispatch and routine operations clear.

Give examples of how scanner owners help the police. There's numerous articles about this - I believe that Bob Reynolds (brey1234) routinely posts newspaper articles where scanner owners have helped law enforcement. Also, give examples on how Florida residents can use their scanners to keep them informed about crime in their area to keep them safe.

 

[Bolt21]

Joe, how dare you post something logical and constructive. Members, take note. This is what I am looking for in this thread. This whole thing is a rough draft. Some people are acting like this is all set in stone and having a hissy-fit about certain ideas. Joe, thanks for your input - you are one of a few, and I mean FEW, members that have actually contributed something useful to this thread.

 

[MR-EDACS]

Actually they are MDC`s not MDT`s. Most departments dont use terminals anymore, that was so 1990`s.

I am sure everyone knew what I meant that a majority of the call are on computers screens now and not on the radio.

 

[News_Media_News]

I am sure everyone knew what I meant that a majority of the call are on computers screens now and not on the radio.

I beg to differ.

 

[scaninnyc]

Joe, how dare you post something logical and constructive. Members, take note. This is what I am looking for in this thread. This whole thing is a rough draft. Some people are acting like this is all set in stone and having a hissy-fit about certain ideas. Joe, thanks for your input - you are one of a few, and I mean FEW, members that have actually contributed something useful to this thread.

The mods can delete my interference, my apologies.

 

[Bolt21]

The mods can delete my interference, my apologies.

Not necessary. You brought up some good points - about scanners AND feeds. I would have no problem with feeds if a reasonable delay was added.

 

[zerg901]

https://sites.google.com/site/scannerstorys/home

I have some good scanner storys here. Peter Sz

 

[markbart]

Since I have no digital scanner right now,I am listening to a RR feed as I type this.The feed is from the next county over from me.It also covers my county with some analog channels that I also monitor at home.Right now there is a 6 to 8 secs.delay on the feed.

Mark

 

[Bolt21]

I received the following unsolicited message from another Florida member via PM. The sender agreed to let me post this as long as his name and position were not compromised.

"I don't like to post publicly because I sit on a local county's [edited]. I read your post about streaming being a motivator of agencies moving to encryption. I can tell you as someone sitting on the inside that you are very much correct. The ease at which uninformed individuals can monitor due to streaming has alarmed many LE agencies and put encryption on their radio wish list. If the budgets werent so tight right now it would be more apparent. PM if you ever have any questions."

Like others have mentioned before, I believe that streaming would probably not be such an issue if a significant delay was added, so that it could not be considered "real-time" and consequently not so "threatening" to law enforcement agencies.

 

[jcardani]

Hi Bolt,

I appreciate your work here. Based on the few helpful comments on this thread, it would probably be wise to let it go. Feel free to PM me anytime.

Obviously government does not feel that the people that it serves have the right to monitor law enforcement. As I stated before, Your best option is to educate law enforcement on the benefits of having the public listen. You can do this by meeting with the powers to be and giving them good examples of how scanner owners helped the police in the past. You can contact the sheriff, police chief directly, or contact the media and maybe they can report on it. If you get enough people and media on the bandwagon, you may get some results from public safety. Remember, the sheriff is an elected official. Media pressure may just work.

 

[jcardani]

As for the feeds, I run a feed for Philadelphia Police. My feed does not include sensitive talkgroups or even district dispatch talkgroups. I do this for officer safety reasons.

I only feed citywide admin (mostly crime broadcasts), traffic units, and special events talkgroups (used for parades and events). I know that several Philadelphia law enforcement officers monitor my feed on their phones - probably for interops.

 

[abbydabby]

cell phone reception

why not start with all fla feed providers stopping all pol transmissions to peoples cell phones an make it public that they have done this.my next door person is a sex affender an has all local pds in pasco county on his cell phone. he is to stuped to learn how to program a real scanner

 

[LetterX]

he is to stuped to learn how to program a real scanner

Uh... I only hope this is a joke.

 

[kayleesdad]

Maybe it'll catch on in Florida under current laws or new laws......






Louisville, KY - Police charge man with smartphone scanner apps

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.911dispatch.com/2010/11/p...pps/#more-4113

"After stopping a Kentucky man for playing his radio too loud and discovering he had a warrant, Louisville police added charges when they found his smartphone had apps allowing him to monitor police radio transmissions. The police action is the first reported case of criminal charges for possessing a software application allowing access to police radio transmissions via the Internet."

 

[tampabaynews]

Listen up, I vouch for Bolt21's credibility. I believe he has never nor would ever make up receiving a message.

I think what the problem is, is that people are offended with the fact that feeds *are* contributing to encryption. I feel responsible for supporting feeds by listening to them, which I am no longer because that would make me a hypocrite. In fact, I see a lot of good things from feeds disappearing, such as awful IPN pages some people put out.

However, this thread was NOT meant to specifically bash feeds. But from my contacts, they are the largest concern of law enforcement, and I know many agree because they have actually asked around. Feeds make public safety transmissions available to nearly anyone and everyone with an internet connection for free. Yes, there are other reasons for encryption, I get that. But feeds make it so easy, no money or programming required, end of story.

It was also requested that this thread was limited to Floridians so we can discuss what we could do locally. Brush up on forum rules, it states you should leave regional threads for the locals. So if you were called out, it's because you didn't read the rules nor respect the OP's request to keep this thread Floridian. If I can refrain posting in threads regarding areas I do not care for, I sure you can as well. Let the locals handle their issues, especially if your would-be post does absolutely nothing for the thread.

I find it asinine that we have people on here say anything but what is helpful regarding slowing encryption down. You'd think everyone here would be pro-scanners, but that is not the case. I find it difficult to understand why some of you signed up on this website when you cannot support someone who's made bold attempt to save your hobby.

Bolt21, I appreciate what you are doing and I'm sorry that we've had many people ruin this thread because they have nothing better to do. Maybe we can weed out undesirables from this conversation by getting communicating via E-Mail, or meeting for dinner.

 

[jcardani]

Well said Ryan!

 

[dic]

Lou Maag where are you!?!?!?!?!

 

[jim202]

You can bad mouth people all day long for the real truth being said. Bottom line here is just that the
simple issue of having access to real time activity from the streaming is in fact forcing just this type of
pressure on the public safety agencies. The more real time audio that is available, the faster you will
see these agencies go fully encrypted.

I work in the field of radio interoperability and travel around the country as part of my work. I visit these
public safety agencies on a regular basis. The comments from them are all in line with the reactions
that you have seen taking place. The police chief's feelings are almost always the same. Their feelings
are that with the live audio feeds, they will be forced to go out of their way and have to spend the money
to encrypt their radio systems to protect the officers out in the field.

You as people wanting to have more and more availability to the police audio have come up with these
streaming audio feeds. Sure it is great to provide the world with the audio. You might feel proud that
what your doing is a service to others. Just keep feeling that way as you cause these systems to
put encryption in faster. Would it hurt to add an hour or more delay to your streaming audio? People
could still get to hear the audio your so proud to provide. But the police would be even more happy in
that it was not real time.

 

[Bolt21]

Jim, I was a bit confused when I read what you quoted and the first line of your post. I'm guessing you were referring to my nyc buddy since you mentioned bad mouthing. But after reading the rest of your post, I take it you agree with me regarding feeds?