Finally! 800 MHz Retuning Begins

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rfburns

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Physical retuning in the 800 MHz rebanding process has begun in Colorado, with one of the nation's largest public-safety systems starting the technical and logistical challenge this week. Nearly 30,000 subscribers will be returned as part of the Consolidated Communications Network of Colorado (CCNC).

http://radioresourcemag.com/news.cfm#Finally
 

jimmnn

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New sites each week this summer.

The state is still building out its network and will be adding new sites all summer; construction on a new site will begin each week throughout the summer months

Better get pro96com warmed up.

Jim<
 
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cstockmyer

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Ok dumb question. What is re banding? And what does it mean to the average scanner listener?
 

jfab

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bonus1331

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The question remains; how many systems being rebanded will it take before Uniden has enough data to attempt the firmware update to track the new rebanded systems?
Will Uniden only need 1 to make it happen, or are there other issues that may take a number of systems to monitor prior to Uniden having enough data?
 

scanlist

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jeffreyinberthoud said:
make it stop!!!!!!!
I feel your pain (tm) :)

No need to stress out over this one. It's quite simple for us in Colorado. What few moto analog 800 sytems are on the air in Colorado are NOT impacted as they are on grandfathered frequencies NOT impacted by rebanding.

For those wondering what the heck start searching the range of 851.0125 to 853.9875 for the site and control channel relocations.

Now the million dollar question is which site wins the 1st site converted contest?

True P25 uniden scanners (296, 396, 796, 996) should be fine with the band tables being broadcast over the control channel.

RadioShack PRO-96 and 2096 will need the "9600 CC mode multi-table" manually programmed. It's been addressed in the radioshack forum here on radrefer so use the search function in the forums.

FWIW I still see iDen transmission signatures in the 852 and 853 MHz ranges as I post this.


Phil.
 

SCPD

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I still don't think that the multi-tables will have to be used for DTRS, but we'll have to wait and see..............................Below is from Radio Shack's official statement at:

http://www.radioshack.com/uc/index....Library/BuyersGuides/research/Scanners12.html

All RadioShack scanner models will work fine on LTR and EDACS trunking systems during and after rebanding but will need to be reprogrammed with the new rebanded frequencies by the customer as they are changed at the system level. LTR and EDACS systems do not use hard-coded channel plans and the scanners will trunk to whatever frequency is programmed into the radio for a particular EDACS LCN or LTR Home Repeater.

All RadioShack scanner models will work fine on true Project 25 trunking systems with the 9600 bps P25 control channel. The PRO-96, 20-526, and PRO-2096 20-496, are the only RadioShack scanners that are Project 25 compatible. If control channel frequencies change as a result of rebanding they will have to be reprogrammed into the scanner by the customer. The P25 channel plan is hard coded into the radios but already has provisions for the new channel spacing that will occur with rebanding. Please see further information below.

All RadioShack scanner models will work fine on Motorola trunking systems (using the legacy Smarnet 3600 baud control channel) that only use frequencies between 851-861 MHz. If control channel frequencies change as a result of rebanding they will have to be reprogrammed into the scanner by the customer. The Motorola channel plan for frequencies between 851-861 MHz will not change during or after rebanding.

Motorola trunking systems (using the legacy Smartnet 3600 baud control channel) that use some, or all frequencies in the range of 866-869 MHz will cause problems for ALL scanners after the systems are rebanded because of changes that Motorola will make to the trunking channel plan that is hard coded into our scanners. We believe that the PRO-96, 20-526, and PRO-2096, 20-496, can be adapted to the new trunking channel plan because there are provisions in those models to manually edit the Motorola trunking channel plans using Win96 software (www.Starrsoft.com). The edited plans will override the plans that are hard-coded into firmware and we believe that these radios will function just fine on Motorola systems once the custom channel plan is programmed into the bank. We are still fairly confident that this will work, but no one – no scanner manufacturer - will know with certainty until the first Motorola 866-869 MHz system is rebanded and this can be tried in the field.

For ALL other (non-digital) RadioShack scanners (i.e., PRO-91/92/93/94/95, PRO-2052, etc.) the radios will not scan to the correct channel when the system assigns a call to a channel that was previously on a frequency between 866-869 MHz and was retuned to a new, rebanded frequency 15 MHz lower between 851-854 MHz. The Motorola trunking channel plan for these frequencies will change because the frequencies are moving 15 MHz down, and, because channels in the 866-869 are set on 12.5 kHz centers, whereas the pre-rebanding channels in the 851-854 MHz range are on 25 kHz centers, so, the number of frequencies between 851-854 MHz will effectively be doubled.
 
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mpg0515

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This is going to take way longer than they think here in Colorado. They say at the end of September, I say at the end of 2008! Both the State of Colorado and CCNC can't even begin to communicate with the FCC to make that dedline. Good Luck, I guess we'll see what happens....
 

scanlist

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logitec said:
I still don't think that the multi-tables will have to be used for DTRS, but we'll have to wait and see....
Since DTRS is at the mercy of motorola in all of this. It all hinges on whether or not mot decides to implement their perception of how the frequency tables are in relation to the channel numbers broadcast over the control channels. The problem with PRO-96 and 2096 is
The P25 channel plan is hard coded into the radios but already has provisions for the new channel spacing that will occur with rebanding.
If mot makes any kind of deviation from the assumtion that GRE/radioshack has for this we end up with the multi-table programming situation.

Phil.
 

ScannerSK

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Re-banding

I caught part of a conversation from Weld dispatch this evening on the drive home (aired over Fire A or B) advising all personel are to bring in their radios for rebanding this evening at 18:00 hours.
 

greenthumb

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# May 13, 2007
Thank you for your continued support in the Rebanding effort to program all 27,000+ radios across the state within the next four months. As you can imagine this is an enormous task to say the least. The Motorola Team and our subcontractors have been working for months to develop a standardized plan that would make the rebanding effort as easy as possible for all users. With this in mind please find attached the schedule (as it is today) for the next 30 days. Of course with weather issues, travel plans changing, radios NOT showing up at the appointed time, technical issues, etc. this timeline may have to be adjusted. Certainly it is our desire and commitment to give you as much notice as possible when our subcontractors are scheduled to be in your area to reband your agencies radios. Either myself as Senior Project Manager or one of our radio subcontractors will be in touch with you, your local OEM, local radio shop or other partnering agency to advise you of the upcoming schedule for your rebanding timeframe. In the meantime please feel free to contact me for questions and/or concerns.
The largest problem that will hamper our project timeline is for the radios not showing up when scheduled. As partners within the DTR Radio System, please pass this schedule on to your respective employees and fellow agencies as you see fit. Because of the hundreds of agencies (500+)across the state that are on the DTR Radio System it is our commitment that our team will be advising you via emails and/or the CCNC website (www.ccncinc.org) of updates to the schedule with hopes that you will pass this information along to your neighboring agencies & employees to assist in coordinating scheduled times and locations. Ideally it would be best if you could have someone from your department be the "contact" for our subcontractors when they show up to reband the radios. We need someone at that level to work directly with our contractors to make sure that ALL RADIO`s have been rebanded during the scheduled timeframe. Otherwise after we reband the infrastructure and touch the radios the second time the radios that have NOT been REBANDED will NOT work.
At anytime it would be my pleasure to come make a brief presentation to your staff members concerning this project and the seriousness of everyone paying close attention to all the details of the rebanding schedule and project. Hopefully in a year when this is behind us our people who serve in the Public Safety Arena will be better off by having better communications!

# May 14, 2007

Schedule Document
http://www.ccncinc.org/rebanding/rebanding_schedule.pdf

Please review and check back often.
 

Blogger

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I hope this process goes smoothly... Anytime I have been involved in a mass reprogramming inevitably numerous radios get missed....
 

jfab

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ScannerSK said:
I caught part of a conversation from Weld dispatch this evening on the drive home (aired over Fire A or B) advising all personel are to bring in their radios for rebanding this evening at 18:00 hours.

Broomfield PD rebanded a couple weeks ago as well!
 

scanlist

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This is just phase I radio reprogramming at the moment.

The fun begins when the sites themselves are changed.
 

n0doz

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OK, I'm getting lost... how do you reprogram the radios in the field without simultaneously doing the sites? Are they simply adding the new info to the field units and not deleting the old? Thanks!!
 

MMIC

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n0doz said:
OK, I'm getting lost... how do you reprogram the radios in the field without simultaneously doing the sites? Are they simply adding the new info to the field units and not deleting the old? Thanks!!

For the most part, yes.

In Motorola radios, the rebanding flash upgrade allows for a longer list of control channels to be added to the radio so that the same list of control channels can be entered, less 15 MHz. It also enables NPSPAC channel spacing (12.5 kHz) and deviation settings (+/- 4 kHz) for the new NPSPAC band (down 15 MHz from the current NPSPAC band). Finally, the flash adds the new channel band plan (hexidecimal numbers that are broadcast over the air) to the radio. This plan can be "shuffled" - or customized - if the system owner wishes. Once a site is retuned, a "rebanded" bit will be broadcast over the control channel and the radio will use the new NPSPAC deviation and channel spacing settngs for that part of the frequency band, and the new band plan will be used for that site. If the "rebanded" bit is not seen over the control channel, the radio will use the deviation settings, channels spacing, and band plan that were in the radio prior to rebanding.

The talk groups remain the same, unless any were changed during the reprogramming. There are not any abilities to assign "pre rebanding" and "post rebanding" talk groups that are seamless to the end user.
 
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