Fire Scorches 800 Acres In Los Padres

[SCPD]

I was looking over the fuel moisture tables for the central coast this morning. Surprisingly, it is one of the driest areas in the state. Unusual, as it is not this dry there early in the season. That is another factor the management team has to consider. I have one former co-worker that I worked with way back when, more than twenty years ago, who is now one of the 16 or 17 Type I incident commanders nationwide. If the this fire continues long enough he may well become the individual who has to sign his name on a decision.

 

[KD6DSI]

Please correct me if I'm wrong or innacurate, but didn't the USFS take quite a bit of fallout over their tactics and strategies on the Zaca Fire in letting it grow so large? Seems like the fire management over suppression theory has not fared well for them. That be the case, this doesn't seem to be working in their favor as well.

A few months ago, I heard "informed speculation" from a local fire chief that the LPNF may use those tactics for budgetary reasons.

 

[KD6DSI]

Surprisingly, it is one of the driest areas in the state. Unusual, as it is not this dry there early in the season.

Oooooh, yeah.... 105 yesterday in San Luis Obispo, 106 forecast for today, 103 at 11 AM (http://www.sloweather.com). RH around 10%, DP 40F. Winds picking up a little at 3 but offshore, (from the NNE)

Current Chandler Burning Index 153 (Extreme), Angstrom Ignition Index -1 Very Likely, EMC 3% etc.

 

[ScannerDude244]

I'm getting alot of PL tones on all the Tacs
168.050 Tac1
168.100 Tac2
168.600 Tac3
166.725 Tac 5
168.475 Tac 6
164.1250 work channel


166.6875 Air to ground
167.950 BLM Air to ground


New finds today
169.5375 "Indians Com" Command Channel for Indians Fire Not a new find it has a repeater up on it for command net
168.2500 Tac 7
169.200 Air to Air Tac 3

. I can identify one of your question mark frequencies. 164.125 MHz is Region 5's (Forest Service) work channel. It is supposed to be a non-fire tactical used for maintenance crews, recreation personnel, wildlife, timber, etc. They used to only have the NIFC tacs to use and that had to end as utilization of those frequencies for fire has gotten frequent enough that it was causing problems.

Thanks smokey! yeah I Did hear someone say "I Need to switch out a chainsaw" that's about it.

The fire camp service net you listed is not familiar to me. I was aware of only three fire camp service nets in California and 169.5375 is not one of them. What type of traffic are you hearing on it? Normally only the Forest dispatcher and the incident communications or incident dispatch are the only entities heard on fire camp service nets. So you might hear something like "Los Padres, Indians Communications" or "Los Padres, Indians Com", with traffic relating to the ordering of fire resources such as engines, crews, aircraft, and perhaps things like shower units, caterers, etc. Fire camp service nets are used infrequently anymore due to the use of cell phones. When cell phone coverage does not exist the fire camp service net can be quite busy.

With narrowbanding expanding the number of frequencies in use it is possible that the frequency you have listed for this is a new one for this year. The information I received that was current as of last year, from someone on the Los Padres, was that this Forest did not have a fire camp service net in their primary radio program. I haven't received any information for this year yet.

Fire camp service net differs from the logistics net in that logistics nets are generally used for in camp use only between the various logistics entities such as ground support, food unit, supply, fire information, and similar. They are also used to link command repeaters and to set up cross band remote bases. A base station on a "victor" frequency such as 123.050 might be set up on the other side of a major ridge from the incident helibase and linked back to that helibase using one of the logistic net frequencies. Same thing can be done to link more than one command repeater together so that remote locations on the fire can be heard on the same frequency as the primary command repeater.

They now have a repeater up on that frequency and using it like you said a command net! thanks again why did it take so long to setup a repeater a week into the fire?

And also why do they always change AIR to Air frequencies everyday?

 

[ScannerDude244]

Fire now at 50,000 acres

The Indians Fire in the Los Padres National Forest, Fort Hunter Liggett and on private lands is expected to spread primarily to the north and east.
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The fire is currently at 50,099 acres and 41 percent containment.

The voluntary evacuation notice for upper Pine Canyon (above paved roads), and an advisory to residents of lower Pine Canyon and Thompson Canyon remain in effect.

The evacuation for cabins in the Santa Lucia Tract and six residences on private land at the north edge of Fort Hunter Liggett remain in effect.

For more information about the Indians Fire: Los Padres National Forest Fire Information Call Center (805) 961-5770.


http://www.thecalifornian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080620/NEWS01/80620013/1002/rss

Man it's hot today 98 here is Soledad, So i'm gussing its about 110 out with the fire crews! ouch

 

[SCPD]

I'm beginning to see a pattern developing here. 169.5375 is one of the frequencies in the federal/local interagency management interoperability frequency sets. There are two sets of frequencies for each of two bands, VHF and UHF. The two sets in each band are for law enforcement purposes and for "incident response" purposes (presumably all non law enforcement responses). The curious thing about 169.5375 and its use on this fire for command is that for both simplex and repeater use this frequency has been designated as the national calling channel. There are four other frequency pairs that are not designated for calling purposes. I've noticed in reports sent in by people searching the bands for frequencies in use on large incidents that this VHF federal/state interoperability plan frequencies have been showing up as commands and sometimes designated as "Command 8" or higher. The first seven command, tactical, and logistics frequencies are a permanently designated set of frequencies used for the National Interagency Radio Support Cache (NIRSC). What is being called "Command 8", "Command 9" and reported here on RR for the last couple of years seem to be frequencies in this new (since narrow banding) federal government interoperability plan.

I would imagine the NTIA issued nationwide clearance for this frequency set before all the agencies starting grabbing the new frequencies made available by the move to narrow band. There are some problems for use of a couple of the frequencies in the NIRSC in the eastern U.S. due to conflicting uses by other, non wildland fire, federal agencies. The first one that comes to mind is Air Tactics 4, 170.000 MHz, which is used in California for air to ground.

I'm not sure why the air tactics frequencies would change every day. My longest assignment to a single incident was five weeks in 1988 at Yellowstone, and I don't think the air tactics and air to ground frequencies changed once the whole time. I've been on a few more assignments to one incident lasting as long as two weeks and not had them change. But I retired before narrow banding and some of the rules seem to have changed since then. Usually frequency changes were not made unless they had to due to another incident being interfered with or new ones developing where interference was possible, otherwise they left any changes alone due to the possibility of confusion.

I would imagine that there was a command repeater set up prior to you hearing one on 169.5375. I would bet it was in a location you could not hear. With the fire getting bigger, they probably moved the old one. Another possibility is that there are two command repeaters set up on the fire, each with different coverage areas, or even overlapping coverage areas. You may not be hearing the other repeater because it is still in a place you can't hear it. When two command repeaters are set up they will link the two together using the UHF logistics frequencies so that whatever is transmitted on either repeater input frequency will be heard on both repeaters, each on a different command frequency. This is done when one incident management team is overseeing one incident and two repeaters are needed to provide coverage to the entire incident area. In cases where the incident outgrows the ability and span of control of one incident management team to manage, such as the Zaca fire north of Santa Barbara last year and the Rodeo-Chediski fire in northern Arizona in 2002, the fire is divided into zones with an entire incident management team and structure covering each zone. An area command team, of which there are only four nationwide, is then put in charge of the entire incident.

Area teams were originally designed to provide coordination between separate incidents located near each other so that a group of incidents could share resources more efficiently instead of each trying to out compete each other. The area team's mission was to set priorities for the use of resources for a group of incidents. With the advent of the 100,000 plus acre fires becoming more commonplace since 1987, this concept of the area team evolved and the "zone", not something originally conceived of when the incident command system was designed, had to evolve to meet the new reality.

 

[ScannerDude244]

Indians Fire Contained At 50 Percent

NO new finds today smokey... But I pick up a new one last night 169.7250? it was a EMT talking about a firefighter that had heat exhaustion " they were pulling out firefighters left and right yesterday" 110+ over there! ouch! And it's 100 right now in Soledad so it must be 110 again up there right now.

And as far as the Air frequencies go the first few days they were on CAl fire air to air 151.28750 tac22, then switch over to 166.6875 witch is Air to ground but they were using it as Air to Air. As for yesterday and today I didn't hear any air to air traffic at all? I'm guessing they must of diverted them to other fires we had yesterday one in Pebble Beach and Watsonville. I'll see what pops up today


Update just heard on Air to ground Air Tac seeing dry lighting.

Update: Lighting strikes off highway 1 in Big Sur fire staring!

Update: Two lighting strikes in Santa Cruz two confirm fires


Pic of the storm over us

 

[KD6DSI]

LPNF just dispatching to a veg fire Big Sur Coast, north of Lucia, lightning caused. We'll see if this one warrants breaking out into a new topic.

Getting lots of dry lightning up there:

Triangulated strikes from my SLOweather WASP2 display

Raw output from my Boltek lightning tracker and NexStorm Software:

 

[ScannerDude244]

Wow this crazy weather from 100+ to Tstorm now raining!!

Update: Another another lighting strike San Benancio Rd Salinas

Here is a little video I made of the wind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL2tyYE7K7g

 

[ScannerDude244]

Just for those that are listing FYI their is fires popping up everywhere in Monterey and Santa Cruz counties

 

[ScannerDude244]

OK on that Fire in Big sur in LPF sounds like it's going good now They are calling it the " Gallery Fire" Now LPF has two good fires going.

 

[cousinkix1953]

Fire updates

New fires in the Santa Cruz mountains reqired the mandatory evacuation of the Lupin Naturist (nudist's) campp near Los Gatos. Lightning fires are sparking all over the area. Here are some freqs for the Trabing, Whitehurst, Uvas and Mt. Madonna fires.

Trabing Fire activity (Watsonville)
--------------------------------------
135.975
151.220 command 3
151.265 command 2
151.2875 air tac 22
151.295 air tac 5
151.370 Santa Cruz/San Mateo County (Felton ECC)
151.415 fish & game
154.190 county fire yellow
154.265 white fire mars 2
154.280 white fire mars 1
154.295 white fire mars 3
153.325 county fire red
154.950 sheriff evacuation / looter patrols


Mt. Madonna / Uvas / Whitehurst fires activity
---------------------------------------------------
151.145 Santa Clara County park rangers
151.190 tac 4
151.2725 air tac 21
151.295 air tac 5
151.310 air tac 6
151.385 tac 9
151.400 tac 10
151.445 Santa Clara County (Morgan Hill ECC)
154.295 white fire mars 3


The feds aren't very active on the norh side of Monterey Bay.
These frequencies maybe associated with Indians fire in King City.
-------------------------------------------------------
167.950 BLM air tac
168.625 USFS air tac
170.000 USFS air tac

 

[ScannerDude244]

update the Radio Techs got a new command channel up UHF link testing

Command 6
168.4750

Also the Gallery Fire is now 50 acres off Big Sur in LPNF

There is a third fire in LPNF 20 acres no name for that fire yet.

 

[Eng74]

Not sure where they are going but Kern County is sending a Type 3 Strike Team 9321, Engines 314, 326, 345, 356, 371, and Batt 1. It was a Cal Fire request.

 

[selgaran]

I'm not sure why the air tactics frequencies would change every day. My longest assignment to a single incident was five weeks in 1988 at Yellowstone, and I don't think the air tactics and air to ground frequencies changed once the whole time. I've been on a few more assignments to one incident lasting as long as two weeks and not had them change. But I retired before narrow banding and some of the rules seem to have changed since then. Usually frequency changes were not made unless they had to due to another incident being interfered with or new ones developing where interference was possible, otherwise they left any changes alone due to the possibility of confusion.

Well, as you know, California is a very RF heavy environment, and with the topography of two fire-prone mountain ranges separated by a big, flat valley, coupled with aircraft flying up above those mountains in the clear, traffic on those air tac frequencies can travel a very long way. For example, I was listening to LNU doing initial attack on a fire on the Yolo/Colusa border a couple years ago, and the air attack requested and ultimately switched to a new air tac channel in the middle of things because they were catching so much interference from an incident working in the Sierra, down in Tuolumne county, I think.

 

[ScannerDude244]

Two New Fires: Big Sur Coast and Ventana Wilderness

There are three new fires, unrelated to the Indians Fire, on or near the Big Sur Coast. The Gallery Fire, which was reported at about 1:00pm today, has burned approximately 35 acres (at 2:45pm) east of Hwy 1 in the Torre Canyon area south of Grimes Point. The Basin Fire has burned approximately 10-15 acres (at 2:45pm) near the Bear Basin Campground/Pine Ridge area in the Ventana Wilderness. There may be a third small fire in the Ventana Wilderness north of the Basin Fire. The fires appear to have been caused by lightning.

See "Maps" for general location of the Gallery and Basin fires.

Highway 1 is subject to traffic control or temporary closure in the area of the Gallery Fire. At 6:30pm on 6/21, a 2-mile segment of Hwy 1 was closed in both directions, due to concern that the fire may cross the highway. Conditions are changeable. For current status of Hwy 1, visit the CHP website at http://cad.chp.ca/gov/

They just page out Monterey County search and resrescue USAR to help evacuate everyone nearby

http://www.inciweb.org/incident/1298/

 

[SCPD]

Looking at the CADS for many of the California (R5) National Forests shows dozens of lightning started fires. I'm listening to the Sierra National Forest this morning and they are pairing up engines and patrol rigs with call-when-needed (CWN), or blue card, fire crews to respond to some of the starts. The starts are from the Sierra National Forest north, but seem to have missed the Modoc National Forest and the Inyo National Forest. This lightning somewhat reminds me of the lightning bust of 1987, except this time around it is in June and not late August and September. Most of the lightning did not seem to come with any significant moisture, but humidity was up yesterday.

With the weather feature that caused the cumulus buildup yesterday moving on east and a drying trend starting, many of these fires have the potential to get large. The next few days should provide some interesting listening.

There is potential for "layovers" or "sleepers", both terms used to describe fires started by lightning that can creep around on the ground, or burn inside trees for many days before conditions cause them to be noticed. I've personally observed layovers of 18 days and have worked with people who have observed 30 day layover fires, with the number of days indicating the time between the strike and the report of the fire ignited by that strike. In 1977, in northern Arizona on the Kaibab National Forest, I lit many thinning project and logging slash piles in early February, and due to the sparse snowpack of that year, began chasing small fires caused by those burning piles in late April.

We did not seem to get any down strikes or hear any thunder in this portion of the east side of the Sierra yesterday. The Inyo NF might be sending some resources to the west side. The Sequoia NF might be doing the same as they are not showing multiple fire starts on their CAD either.

 

[ScannerDude244]

Frequencies today
173.9125
169.7250
173.6250
170.4750
167.9500
169.9000
168.5500
radio techs testing a new repeater Command 4 166.6125
????


Firefighters have reached 59 percent containment of the Indians Fire burning in the Los Padres National Forest in Monterey County, but still had zero containment of a nearby blaze known as the Gallery Fire this morning.
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The Indians Fire, which has burned more than 53,000 acres, is expected to grow slowly to the north throughout the day because of warm temperatures and low humidity, but is not expected to spread east, south or southwest.

The Monterey County Sheriff's Office has lifted the voluntary evacuation notice for upper Pine Canyon, but an evacuation advisory remains in place for residents of upper and lower Pine Canyon as well as Thompson Canyon.

A large animal advisory also remains in effect for Arroyo Seco and Reliz Canyon roads, recommending that large animals and livestock be removed.

Investigators believe the blaze, which started about 10 miles west of King City on June 8, was triggered by an escaped campfire.

Suppression costs were reported to be $27,600,000 as of 6 a.m. today.

The fire has destroyed two homes and 13 outbuildings, and is still threatening more than 1,000 other residences.

Meanwhile, firefighters are also combating the Gallery Fire, which broke out at about 1 p.m. Saturday, also in Los Padres National Forest, about three miles south of Big Sur.

The blaze, caused by dry lightning, has burned an estimated 2,000 acres and prompted the evacuation of 75 to 100 residences and businesses between Partington Ridge and Graves Canyon.

The American Red Cross has set up an evacuation center at Big Sur Grange Hall.

The fire has closed state Highway 1 between Ventana Inn and Spa, which remains open, and Julia Pfeiffer Burns State Park, which is closed.

Flames are also threatening seven young California condors and one adult condor which were waiting to be rescued this afternoon from holding pens at the Ventana Wildlife Society's condor release site in Big Sur, according to Kelly Sorenson, executive director of the Ventana Wildlife Society.

Road closures have cut off all ground access to the facility and wildlife officials have called the U.S. Coast Guard to help rescue the birds by helicopter.

There was no estimated containment time of the Gallery Fire as of 6 a.m. today.

http://www.thecalifornian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080622/NEWS01/80622001/1002/rss