Following patches

[krezton]

From what I understand if a patch id of 2000 is created for two TGs.. say 5 and 6. You will no longer hear anything on 5 or 6, only on 2000.

I have an LPE200 programmed to monitor some local agencies. However, when a patch is created that I can see in Unitrunker I have to quickly program in that patch ID into my radio to hear either of those TGs.

Is there a way to have the radio automatically monitor the patch if a TG I am on is joined to it? Or will I just have to make a new scan group with all the patch IDs?

Thank you.

Keith Rezton

 

[blah546]

From what I understand if a patch id of 2000 is created for two TGs.. say 5 and 6. You will no longer hear anything on 5 or 6, only on 2000.

As far as I know when you patch groups together they you hear the same thing on all of them. I've seen this behavior with LPE-200's aswell, not just scanners. I'm not sure why you wouldn't hear anything on the other groups once they're patched.

 

[WCRadioGuy]

If a patch is dedicated to a SAID (Site Assigned ID), you should be able to program that ID into your radio and here the patch. If the patch is created and pulls from a pool of SAID's , there are times which you may not hear the audio unless it pulls the same SAID every time.

 

[krezton]

Thank you for the replies.

So on my system here I see the patch on Unitrunker for all 4 sites.

I have my LPE programmed With a Group of say 10 police TGs all in scan. That works great normally. However if they create a patch with any of them I no longer hear anything on the TGs that are patched. I only hear traffic on the patch TG.

Do I have to be 'logged in' to the system for my radio to switch to the patch TG automatically? If so, seeing as I just want to monitor, is my best bet to just create a new group of every patch ID and switch to that when necessary? Or is there somehting in programmer im missing about switching to patch TG automatically.

 

[greenthumb]

If a patch is dedicated to a SAID (Site Assigned ID), you should be able to program that ID into your radio and here the patch. If the patch is created and pulls from a pool of SAID's , there are times which you may not hear the audio unless it pulls the same SAID every time.

It is important to note that a SAID does not necessarily have to be pooled - it can be assigned to a certain patch group (1-4) on any one of the consoles.

 

[WCRadioGuy]

That is true if the Console is assigned to a SAID.

 

[WayneH]

Shouldn't his radio interpret the talkgroup alias messages announced over the CC and redirect to the new TG ID? My FMD, as old as it is, didn't have an issue following patches. I didn't do anything extra in the programming.

 

[blah546]

That's certainly what I thought. I've seen LPE-200's do this that aren't logged into the system. A patch is somewhat pointless if you have to tell everyone to change to another group anyway...

 

[morganAL]

You can't scan into a patch. The radio has to be on the TG that is patched in order to hear it. The CC tells radios on TG x to listen at XX.

 

[otter9309]

Morgan is right. In addition if your radio is not logging on to the system, there is no command being sent to your LPE to see the patch. If the same "SAID's" are being setup for patches just program those.

S.

 

[WayneH]

Morgan is right. In addition if your radio is not logging on to the system, there is no command being sent to your LPE to see the patch. If the same "SAID's" are being setup for patches just program those.

You don't need to be logged in. The announcement is globally directed.

 

[mancow]

Then why won't my MR-K do it either. I've resorted to programming all the patch groups and just scanning them.

 

[blah546]

Perhaps something goofy with the system or the way the dispatchers are patching? I've seen non-logged in LPE-200s follow patches fine without programming any other groups in.

 

[morganAL]

Then why won't my MR-K do it either. I've resorted to programming all the patch groups and just scanning them.

You have to have your radio on the original group that was patched in order to hear it. The radio in scan mode only listens for GID xx not the redirect message that the CC is broadcasting.

Perhaps something goofy with the system or the way the dispatchers are patching? I've seen non-logged in LPE-200s follow patches fine without programming any other groups in.

There's only one way dispatchers can patch... It depends on how the System and consoles are set up. All of the consoles can pull from a pool of SAIDs or SAIDs can be assigned to a specific console. Remember also that SimulSelects also use a SAID. Being logged in is how the system knows to direct calls in a Multi-site environment. If you are 2 miles from the EDACS site that has 300 units listening to the same TG you want to listen to, then being logged in is not an issue. If you are out in the puckerbrush and listenening to a site that doesn't have many or any users on a TG you want to listen to, then it becomes a real issue. On Wide-Area calls the system looks to see what TGs are logged in at the sites. If no one is logged in to site 2 on TG 1 and TG 1 is active on site 1, then TG 1 is not heard on site 2. Just because you are scanning it doesn't mean it will be there. IF your radio is programmed to auto-login then you have to turn the selector knob to that TG. If it isn't programmed to auto-login then you have to TX on that group so the system knows you are there unless your radio is programmed to RX only.

 

[blah546]

You have to have your radio on the original group that was patched in order to hear it. The radio in scan mode only listens for GID xx not the redirect message that the CC is broadcasting.

Bingo, that's it. I bet he (the original author) doesn't have the radio actually on the group, just scanning the group. That makes sense.

There's only one way dispatchers can patch... It depends on how the System and consoles are set up.

I've seen consoles in this area (goes back to how they're set up) where the "patch" is nothing more then the console itself linking 2 radios (seperate from the system) together, keying one up with the audio of the other and vice versa. On the system the "patch" doesn't end up being a real patch at all, just two TGs transmitting the same thing but using up 2 channels. Do consoles actually need to be physically connected to the system/site somehow or is this just a cheap console setup?

 

[MMIC]

That's a cheap setup, but they probably don't do this routinely (or at least I hope they don't). Consoles do need to be connected via wireline (copper, uW, etc.) to the IMC in order to do patches correctly - plus there must be connectivity between the IMC and the site. No connectivity to the site, no console patches or simulselect functions will be available.

 

[blah546]

Ya they don't do it routinely because it doesn't really work... for some reason the audio quality is horrible and you always miss the beginning of the transmission, I guess because of the little delay keying up a radio. Once someone tried to patch a Provoice channel with an analog channel in this fashion and you couldn't make out the Provoice transmissions at all. Almost sounded like someone stuck a mic up to a speaker that was too loud...

 

[greenthumb]

M/A-COM does not recommend patching digital talk groups to analog talk groups, even though the console setup program will ask you whether or not you want to allow mixed-mode patches.

 

[MASTRTECH]

If the consoles have Rev 6 or better, you can make a mixed mode patch and it does work.

 

[WCRadioGuy]

If the consoles have Rev 6 or better, you can make a mixed mode patch and it does work.

Rev 6E is the latest and greatest for those interested.