Grant County Central Dispatch

[djbrane]

Central dispatch more efficient

http://chronicle-tribune.com/articles/2011/04/06/news/doc4d9be1bcf41f5470796341.txt

 

[Viper43]

There are a lot of things that need to be considered, but i don't see it happening. The main reason, if nothing else is going to be egos, and thats the biggest obstacle to overcome. idon't see Marion PD going for it. Also another issue, even with combined dispatch centers is the left hand still doesn't have any clue what the right is doing. Calls still get transferred from call taker to call taker because some set things up where one takes fire/EMS another PD, and then it can be transferred from a PD call taker for one dept. to another even though they are sitting next to each other because one dispatches one department and another a different department. I see more time wasted than the old days where each department had their own dispatch centers. And if you get real lucky you get a call taker who can't figure out where you are and you get bounced around two or three times. I have seen it happen. And, in the case of getting put on hold and transferred and the call being lost thats happened to me three times with one dispatch center in the past two years.Honestly i don't see new dispatch centers being any better.

 

[Agentblack]

I'm a little surprised they have not done this already. They closed the care facility out by the county highway barn in preparation of opening a combined 911 center. However, as its clear from this article, it hasnt happened.

Viper, if they set it up correctly, they won't have that problem. More times than not most dispatch centers, the dispatchers can take both kinds of calls. It's true at our center, and its true with most of the other PSAP's in the immediate area.

Grant County's 911 system is 10 years behind the 8 ball anyways. Especially when you have medical dispatching done by an agency that is not in the same center. I've seen this failure first hand as I have experienced it twice with Gas City. I spent more time getting transferred that before MGH actually answered the phone, the ambulance was already on the scene. The ALS wasn't even dispatched because it took so long for them to answer the 911 phone. Now thats not to say they werent over whelmed or some other problem, however it was a bit bothersome especially when you have someone who is critically ill.

Honestly, a combined dispatch center for Grant County would probably be the best thing to happen to them since..... well Grant County hasnt had much good stuff to talk about other than the Walmart facility and even then thats debatable. I know this because I'm a former resident of Grant County.

But the problem you also have with folks in Grant County is, they want want want, but never want to pay. They are a poster child for Ultra conservative who's ring leader is IWU. If IWU says no, it doesnt happen. Period. This combined dispatch center is something that they DESPERATELY NEED, yet 1) it wont be approved because no one there wants to pay for it, 2) the mindset of "911 will always be there, so they dont need all this crap", 3) you say taxes and its like yelling FIRE in a movie theater with those folks.

It's sad for most residents of Grant County that they cant see how this could benefit them, because they are only stuck on the price tag.... Until they need the help and get passed around multiple times.. then WATCH OUT!! they are on a war path. I've said to some people long before i got into public safety.. Put up or shut up. Put up the dollars to fund the services to the levels you expect, or shut your mouth and stop complaining when it takes 30 mins to get an ambulance to you.

I hope the residents of Grant County see the good in this as i still have friends in the area who could benefit from this.

 

[whitesox4life]

as a member of public safety in grant county, i agree that this central dispatch is badly needed. on the fire side, i hate having to go thru sheriff dispatch to find out how far out the EMS units are for a bad wreck. or from the ems side having to ask if fire has been dispatched to an accident that we are en route to. interop is not the greatest at this point in the county since LEOs are using 800mhz, EMS runs mix of 800 and VHF, and fire runs VHF w/ 800 capabilities if needed. i honestly feel that a central dispatch will significantly cut down on confusion between the agencies responding to incidents. as far as the cost, it's gonna save $8 million in the long run, what the heck are you all waiting for?

 

[Viper43]

One other issue that many don't consider when combining everything under one roof. If that one roof comes down, say a power outage and the generators don't light up as they should the entire county is in the dark, no comms at all. A power grid issue could knock an entire county out for days, if not longer in say a massive earthquake. Putting all your eggs in one basket isn't a good idea at all, and i have yet to see a properly built withstand all natural disaster comm center in Indiana. Wasn't too long ago Delaware Co had to evacuate their center during an incident and they had to dispatch from a vehicle, is Grant Co. prepared to spend another 2 million for portable comms too? Seems no one has considered the backup issues if the something did happen to cause evacuation of a single comm center. Even if they had to evacuate one today, can the other take over their load? Somehow, from the sound of it I highly doubt it.
I see the same issue here in Hancock County since everything moved into the new center, they have absolutely no backup to fall back on. And the tornado that hit Greenfield went right over thhe comm center. You could tel that just looking at the tower behind the building as two antennas, one on the East and one on the West siides of the tower were bent in towards the center of the tower. That building isn't what I consider a safe place during a tornado, they were lucky, it was an F0 but an F5 would have destroyed the building and left the entire county without comms at least until the state could get there with mobile comm center which could take hours and cost countless lives just because the building wasn't built properly.
And back in the floods a couple years ago, how many counties and towns lost comm due their comm center or even generators being under water? I seem to remember at least one SAFET site was flooded, ad a couple comm centers. These structures need to be built not by whats happened in the past but what is possible in the future, and in Indiana tornados, floods and earthquakes need to be considered as well as weeks on end without power. those plans need to consider the worst case senario, not what will do for now as that will lead to disaster.

 

[Agentblack]

I'm sure they wont put their eggs into one basket. Even though our center as co-located with one of our sister agencies, we still have two backup's we can go to in the event of a disaster.

Trying to build a building to withstand an F5 or worse tornado is going to send the price spiraling out of control and I assure you, you wouldn't want to pay that price tag. Besides, if a tornado did hit the comm center and took out a tower, your STILL going to be without comm's at least for a few hours/days until you can get antenna's up.

As for flooding, well common sense will tell you not to build in an area pron to flooding ,i.e in a valley, near a creek/river, etc. yet at the same time to meet tornado risistance, kinda moot to build the building up on stilts as it would be blown away by the tornado.

I think most agencies who combine or build a new center try to find a happy middle ground based upon the likelyhood of a type of event occuring in their area. If the are has only had one f5 tornado in 150 years, the likelyhood of another occuring? Null? But if the area has had 50 f3 tornadoes in the last 20 years, then ya build the building to withstand at least an F3.

Again it all goes back to how much tax payers are willing to spend, me personally as much as needed to ensure the safety of my family, other people? no so much. they hear tax/spend/millions and immediately go up in arms.

Edit: boo i noticed they removed the articles.. now the only way to read it is to pay that crappy paper to read it.. boo!

 

[Viper43]

Days or weeks to replace antennas? No, if you do as the military does you can have them up in minutes. It's called being prepared! And in reality building properly to withstand an F5 doesn't have cost near as much as your thinking, and in fact one method is not only cheaper to build but to heat and cool as well....underground. And it doesn't need to be completely underground, but the more the better. Of course in flood zones that won't work but pretty much every county has an area it could be done.
One of the dumbest moves is having all these comm centers built right along with the county jail, as Muncie/Delaware county found out that can be a nightmare, again, poorly thought out descision making.

 

[Agentblack]

Days or weeks to replace antennas? No, if you do as the military does you can have them up in minutes. It's called being prepared! And in reality building properly to withstand an F5 doesn't have cost near as much as your thinking, and in fact one method is not only cheaper to build but to heat and cool as well....underground. And it doesn't need to be completely underground, but the more the better. Of course in flood zones that won't work but pretty much every county has an area it could be done.
One of the dumbest moves is having all these comm centers built right along with the county jail, as Muncie/Delaware county found out that can be a nightmare, again, poorly thought out descision making.

I dont think its a dumb idea to have them in the same location as the jail facilities. What Delaware/Muncie screwed up was its DIRECTLY UNDER all of the inmates. And they share the same air systems as the inmates. THAT my friend, is a very dumb idea.

However if you plan the facility right, you could be just fine having it at the jail complex. I.e: different air handlers for inmates vs admin building, NOT under the inmates so if they flood the cell block it doesnt flood dispatch, etc. If done properly, having it at the same complex is no problem.

 

[KidClerk]

For those of us who used to answer a firephone in our homes and carried no pager, its all an improvement over what it used to be. You can never prepare for every 'what if', but you can work to become more efficient with the resources you have. Sounds like maybe Grant County is working to acheive that...and that's good for them!

 

[GTO_04]

as a member of public safety in grant county, i agree that this central dispatch is badly needed. on the fire side, i hate having to go thru sheriff dispatch to find out how far out the EMS units are for a bad wreck. or from the ems side having to ask if fire has been dispatched to an accident that we are en route to. interop is not the greatest at this point in the county since LEOs are using 800mhz, EMS runs mix of 800 and VHF, and fire runs VHF w/ 800 capabilities if needed. i honestly feel that a central dispatch will significantly cut down on confusion between the agencies responding to incidents. as far as the cost, it's gonna save $8 million in the long run, what the heck are you all waiting for?

Central dispatch or not, police and fire units rarely, if ever, talk directly to each other. They usually go through dispatch anyway.

GTO_04

 

[Viper43]

I dont think its a dumb idea to have them in the same location as the jail facilities. What Delaware/Muncie screwed up was its DIRECTLY UNDER all of the inmates. And they share the same air systems as the inmates. THAT my friend, is a very dumb idea.

However if you plan the facility right, you could be just fine having it at the jail complex. I.e: different air handlers for inmates vs admin building, NOT under the inmates so if they flood the cell block it doesnt flood dispatch, etc. If done properly, having it at the same complex is no problem.

Actually it IS a dumb idea to have emergency communications centers in the same complex as a jail or prison, same air system or not. If the inmates took over the dispatchers and ALL communications are compromised, and so is the safety of everyone in the county. And don't say it won't or can't happen because it can.
I was always impressed with one dispatch center in Pa, then I found out it's built on the grounds of Greaterford State Prison. It may be underground but it isn't out of reach of prison inmates. dumb idea!

 

[Agentblack]

Seriously? I would hope that my faith in you as having some common sense isn't misplaced, but do you honestly expect me to believe, that YOU believe, the dispatch centers are not secured? I mean seriously. If anyone has enough common sense to think that a jail is pretty secure then its probably a good bet to assume the dispatch center is also secured?

I don't want to assume you're an idiot but your statement is very idiotic. Every psap I have ever been in has had MULTIPLE security features like bullet proof glass, dead bolted doors, redundant power, etc. I mean seriously, your statement made me do an epic facepalm to myself.

I have to ask, as you have shown in other threads, your quick to bash everything as "bad" or "stupid" or "dumb", do you ever have anything GOOD to say about public safety? It seems that all you do is complain and bash public services, yet you offer no VALID suggestions on fixing the problems you point out. Plus you keep saying stuff is a dumb idea, but i'd almost bet 20$ that if the county commissioners or public safety folks came knocking on your door and said hey mr viper, we are going to take a 2% tax on your property to pay for this new ultra secure, away from inmates, buried 20 feet under ground to withstand a nuke attack 911 center, you'd be the first one to postal because its "more taxes". I am also going to go out on a limb here and say you were probably one of the misguided hoosiers who voted for the property tax caps without really considering exactly what was going to happen to critical infrastructure.

Instead of attacking public services all the time, why not contact someone in charge and start offering suggestions on how to fix it within the current budget constraints that you have placed upon those same officials you are complaining about.

 

[Spedz]

911 Systems

@Paramedic18..............I couldn't have said it better myself as a paramedic student and a future Ham I read this statements and just cant understand some of the people that bash the emergency system EMS,Police,Dispatchers and all Emergency Services put there life on the line everyday. They need to have the best dispatch centers that can be for there safety and those that they are saving. I was a dispatcher and a ambulance driver at a company for several years before I went into the military and I can only imagine the chaos if the system would have went down.

There are several ways that they can put safty systems in place to make sure that does not happen. I do agree with Viper on one thing they definitely need to make sure they dot there I's and cross there T's when it comes to back up plans.

However Viper does need to calm down on bashing everything he posts on every Indiana page bashing something..

 

[Viper43]

Secure or not, dispatch centers have no business being anywhere near a jail or prison. But then I have been a dispatcher and I also had to guard prisoners at two different departments. At one the dispatchers were armed, the other I was only dispatcher that was armed.And that was just for a couple small town lockups where we held people overnight to sleep it off or they got transferred in the AM by dayshift to county. We had several occasions where prisoners set fires in the cells and we had to evacuate them AND the dispatch center. Needless to say the days of holding prisoners even to sleep it off came to an end quickly. And it's happened here at county jails too, Madison and Boone counties come to mind off the top of my head. Fires, set by inmates caused evacuations. So what if Madison Co could get on the air in their trailer, in the meantime, while they evacuated and set up the trailer and officer could have needed help or a citizen could have died due to wasted time.
Nothing idiotic about saving lives and USING YOUR HEAD! No amount of security will keep someone out if they really want in. But it's not just the fact they could get get in no matter how redundant the security, it's also the fact they can force an evacuation of the dispatch center. At least Hancock County got smart and moved the dispatch AWAY from the jail to it's own location. Even some state prisons in other states have moved their control centers outside of the prison grounds after inmates took over their control centers during riots. No amount of redundant security or bullet proof glass kept the inmates out. It's best to keep dispatch centers and dispatchers away from jails....period!

 

[Dispatch2323]

Madison County is moving their dispatch center in with Anderson PD/FD next month. I guess they have had enough of the inmates stopping up their toliets and the water runs down the wall in dispatch.