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Guadalupe County article
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texasemt13
CenTex DBA
I wonder how extensive this will get? All the docs we have read in the past say something about more repeater towers... this will more than likely mean at least a few new frequencies. I'm assuming they'll stay VHF though since it's intended to be interoperable with DPS and P&W. That might save on some costs (antennas).
Way to go Sheriff Zwicke for not waiting on state and federal cash to get the job done.
Way to go Sheriff Zwicke for not waiting on state and federal cash to get the job done.
texasemt13
CenTex DBA
I didn't notice it earlier, but it looks like GCSo recently got a new license granted for the 4.9GHz band. WQMR870.
Could this be to compliment there future purchasing? I'd imagine this is for high-speed data transfer, probably to MDTs. Is anyone aware if GCSO is getting (or changing, if they already have them) MDTs?
Could this be to compliment there future purchasing? I'd imagine this is for high-speed data transfer, probably to MDTs. Is anyone aware if GCSO is getting (or changing, if they already have them) MDTs?
This does peak my curiosity. They say it is digital but not P25 so unless they are providing DPS and TPWD with these radios, then it will not be "interoperable" except maybe for themselves within the county. Seguin is using CDM and HT series radios which are analog only so looks like this will cut them out as well as all surrounding counties. This bears keeping a very close eye to see just exactly what will be going in.
Funny thing is with the current analog system they have in place, everyone can already talk to everyone else including neighboring agencies. They also already have at least 2 or 3 different tower sites for the SO and Fire depts.
I hear this could be a "Nexedge" digital system which is not an interoperable standard and cannot be monitored by a scanner.
Funny thing is with the current analog system they have in place, everyone can already talk to everyone else including neighboring agencies. They also already have at least 2 or 3 different tower sites for the SO and Fire depts.
I hear this could be a "Nexedge" digital system which is not an interoperable standard and cannot be monitored by a scanner.
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texasemt13
CenTex DBA
Agreed, I thought, besides SPD being P25, everything was working fine with analog. I understand they need to meet the P25 date, and would hope they're going P25 so they can comply with interoperability requirements.
... and from what I can hear these sites are serving their county well, I know they rearranged the rural VFD calling sites a few years back, but from what I can hear, everything works well.
Man, I hope not. That would be a waste of county money. The article specifically mentions the system being P25 and that it fulfills the P25 requirement. They wouldn't have to buy any radios for DPS and Texas P&W (as if they had to in the past? They could always talk to DPS ((and do)) as well as TXP&W in analog). I also don't understand the need for 2-3 radio sites unless they intend to better cover Schertz and the northwest corner, around York Creek. I'm not familiar with range on the east side of the county.
Is Kurt still around these days? I wonder if he's allowed to say anything?
texasemt13
CenTex DBA
Pacrat, I think the sentence we've both focused on is:
I initially took that to mean what you posited, that the system will be built out and then later upgraded to meet the P25 standard.
Upon further reading in to this one sentence, the way it is worded, I believe the the "upgrade" was for an aging radio system, and that the plan/intentions were "adjusted" to meet the P25 standard.
I can easily see this sentence being interpreted either way (and did so myself). As they say "it's as clear as mud."
I'm not aware of any radio system that is stand-alone digital (and not P25), that with an "upgrade" would become P25. I'm not sure if one exists. The other side of that coin, could be that they're replacing all of their radios with P25 capable radios/consoles, and then later upgrading repeaters, staying on analog, and then upgrading the final piece to digital equipment, then migrating everyone to P25.
One thing is for sure, we'll be around to catch it. Even if it is a non-monitorable type of digital protocol, we'll still figure it out.
I initially took that to mean what you posited, that the system will be built out and then later upgraded to meet the P25 standard.
Upon further reading in to this one sentence, the way it is worded, I believe the the "upgrade" was for an aging radio system, and that the plan/intentions were "adjusted" to meet the P25 standard.
I can easily see this sentence being interpreted either way (and did so myself). As they say "it's as clear as mud."
I'm not aware of any radio system that is stand-alone digital (and not P25), that with an "upgrade" would become P25. I'm not sure if one exists. The other side of that coin, could be that they're replacing all of their radios with P25 capable radios/consoles, and then later upgrading repeaters, staying on analog, and then upgrading the final piece to digital equipment, then migrating everyone to P25.
One thing is for sure, we'll be around to catch it. Even if it is a non-monitorable type of digital protocol, we'll still figure it out.
shedding some light on the subject
yep I'm still around, here is the proposed setup and some more interesting info, As the system is built up, all GCSO and VFD's in Guadalupe County will switch to the Kenwood Nexedge system. a P25 repeater will be put up and patched to the nexedge system thereby giving it "interoperability" with other VHFs. There are many hurdles to jump in order for this system to become operable with one of those hurdles cleared with the acquisition of the 4.9Ghz stuff. Another is licensing the necessary freqs to support this system (more to come on that later). Effective January 31, a new paging tone scheme will be implemented along with the narrowbanding of all fire channels including the tac channels and new berlin's repeater. the tones will be changed from the old 3 second 1 second to 1 second 3 second timing and all the tones will change with the timing change as well to allow for some additional flexibility for notification purposes. (ugh, have to train my ears to a new set of tones now). At this time it looks like the two fire channels will stay analog to enable the two tone dispatches to the fire departments so you would at the very least still be able to monitor those. There is talk of Seguin having capability to patch into the fire related talkgroups to enable EMS and First Responders to communicate. Also looks like Seguin FD will be moving to P25 as well. The Kenwood nexedge equipment is easily (not affordably though) upgraded to P25 by way of software flash so that is the reference to the P25 upgrade as well as the P25 repeater for patching. I can speak for my department only at this point with reference to others that we are in the process of slowly acquiring new nexedge equipment in preparation for the new system. Another interesting thing of note is that there is talk of a total of 5 sites for the nexedge system. Don't know if that will work out but that is the talk right now. I am sure that there will be plenty of opinions as to the interoperable arguement on P25 vs any other protocol but I can say this, the current system although seems to work fine, has many dead spots, several of which are in the western part of the county and also in the southeastern parts. if the system is designed correctly with the 5 sites, it will be a major improvement to our current system and will provide near 100% portable coverage throughout the county. We will still have the capability to communicate on analog tac and TX interoperability channels and with the patch, to the VHF P25 repeater. In the future, the infrastructure and subscriber equipment can and most likely will be switched to the P25 protocol. In the meantime, the idea is to provide for an improvement over the current system in place, be in compliance with the narrowbanding mandate and set ourselves up for a future upgrade to P25. More info to come with time as I can share it.
yep I'm still around, here is the proposed setup and some more interesting info, As the system is built up, all GCSO and VFD's in Guadalupe County will switch to the Kenwood Nexedge system. a P25 repeater will be put up and patched to the nexedge system thereby giving it "interoperability" with other VHFs. There are many hurdles to jump in order for this system to become operable with one of those hurdles cleared with the acquisition of the 4.9Ghz stuff. Another is licensing the necessary freqs to support this system (more to come on that later). Effective January 31, a new paging tone scheme will be implemented along with the narrowbanding of all fire channels including the tac channels and new berlin's repeater. the tones will be changed from the old 3 second 1 second to 1 second 3 second timing and all the tones will change with the timing change as well to allow for some additional flexibility for notification purposes. (ugh, have to train my ears to a new set of tones now). At this time it looks like the two fire channels will stay analog to enable the two tone dispatches to the fire departments so you would at the very least still be able to monitor those. There is talk of Seguin having capability to patch into the fire related talkgroups to enable EMS and First Responders to communicate. Also looks like Seguin FD will be moving to P25 as well. The Kenwood nexedge equipment is easily (not affordably though) upgraded to P25 by way of software flash so that is the reference to the P25 upgrade as well as the P25 repeater for patching. I can speak for my department only at this point with reference to others that we are in the process of slowly acquiring new nexedge equipment in preparation for the new system. Another interesting thing of note is that there is talk of a total of 5 sites for the nexedge system. Don't know if that will work out but that is the talk right now. I am sure that there will be plenty of opinions as to the interoperable arguement on P25 vs any other protocol but I can say this, the current system although seems to work fine, has many dead spots, several of which are in the western part of the county and also in the southeastern parts. if the system is designed correctly with the 5 sites, it will be a major improvement to our current system and will provide near 100% portable coverage throughout the county. We will still have the capability to communicate on analog tac and TX interoperability channels and with the patch, to the VHF P25 repeater. In the future, the infrastructure and subscriber equipment can and most likely will be switched to the P25 protocol. In the meantime, the idea is to provide for an improvement over the current system in place, be in compliance with the narrowbanding mandate and set ourselves up for a future upgrade to P25. More info to come with time as I can share it.
texasemt13
CenTex DBA
Thanks for weighing in on this Chief Strey. The only shining light at the end of that tunnel is your statement:
I'm hoping the county isn't getting over-sold by a Kenwood salesman, but if you say this is going to solve reception issues in the problem areas, you would be the one that knows. Thanks for the insight.
All isn't lost for NEXEDGE though, the DSD software package can decode it.
I'm hoping the county isn't getting over-sold by a Kenwood salesman, but if you say this is going to solve reception issues in the problem areas, you would be the one that knows. Thanks for the insight.
All isn't lost for NEXEDGE though, the DSD software package can decode it.
garyva
Member
While it's true that a NEXEDGE radio can be converted to P25 operation thorugh both an addition of a small piece of hardware and a memory flash upgrade, if it becomes P25, it is no longer NEXEDGE - it's an either/or situation. And once you've converted the radio to P25, you've spent a lot more money than would have been spent buying a P25 radio in the first place.
The narrowbanding mandate for January 1, 2013 is in fact a mandate. The State of Texas has a goal of P25 for interoperability for 2015, not a mandate for P25's usage. For all practical purposes, buying radios through Federal grants requires them to be P25 radios (exceptions can be had, though not easily) but locally funded purchases can of course be of whatever technology the local agency deems most appropriate.
morbe
Member
man! when will this go into effect? Any Idea on when those will be installed?
texasemt13
CenTex DBA
It's in the works but it will take awhile to be fully implemented. To say it'll be ready in 2011 is a stretch. I'd bet that the SO transitions first, then the rural FDs. If, and when, they do go P25 might be a ways off. In the meantime, one way to actually be able to hear them would be to use a receiver, computer, soundcard and digital speech decoder software.
morbe
Member
Well I'm a wiz with computers and mine definatley has a decent sound card (build my own computers). So I guess I would need a digital reciever?
texasemt13
CenTex DBA
Nope. No digital receiver required. You're receiver must tune the correct frequency and it must provide the base band audio to the soundcard. Usually the digital crap is filtered out before it reaches the headphone jack. Tap the discriminator before the filtering is done, install a 3.5mm jack (and usually a resistor in series) and feed the raw audio to a soundcard, run through a Linux computer that supports the soundcard.
Now, to follow a digital trunked conversation, I believe you'd need a computer controlled receiver and a program like Unitrunker running in conjunction with the above setup, so that Unitrunker can switch you're receiver to the next frequency used by the talkgroup. I think. It might even be more in depth than that for trunking.
Sorry OP for getting way off topic here.
Now, to follow a digital trunked conversation, I believe you'd need a computer controlled receiver and a program like Unitrunker running in conjunction with the above setup, so that Unitrunker can switch you're receiver to the next frequency used by the talkgroup. I think. It might even be more in depth than that for trunking.
Sorry OP for getting way off topic here.
morbe
Member
Hmm? I wonder what flavor of Linux it would be compatible with? I have mandrake. Although It would be nice to put the software on a thumb drive and boot to a knopix CD and run the software from a mounted thimb drive? Very interesting to see if it will work that way. I really dont want to get an old computer to install Linux on when every thing (sound Card) is in my main PC.
Not to mention that I have installed Linux on my home computer before and my wife almost trangled me to dead! Dont want to try that again LOL.
Not to mention that I have installed Linux on my home computer before and my wife almost trangled me to dead! Dont want to try that again LOL.
texasemt13
CenTex DBA
If you click the link in post #13 there's a chart showing what receiver + Linux setups have worked, and what they've successfully decoded. Ubuntu and Debian seem to be the most common. But, this is so new that not many people have tried it, and you could say this software is going through beta testing with the RR community (which happens a lot on our site, thanks to many software developers being radio enthusiasts). You can find more info in the appropriate forums.
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