HackOneRF vs RTL-SDRv3 on RX?

[dkcorlfla]

Hi all, the HackOneRF I had on order from Aliexpress finally came in and it's looking like it was not worth the wait or the money.

I played around with the settings for a while and best I could do, the screen shots below show the RX on the RTL-SDRv3 is way better.

Also, the audio when testing on broadcast FM stereo is not even close to what the much cheaper RTL-SDRv3 does.

Unless I missed something, anyone have any ideas?

Thanks, Dale

 

[dkcorlfla]

Update: during lunch it came to mind perhaps at least part of the problem is with the driver.

Found a good read: How to start with HackRF and gqrx - Ethical hacking and penetration testing

Ran:
delcha@DoubleTrouble:~$ sudo apt install hackrf gqrx-sdr
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
gqrx-sdr is already the newest version (2.15.9-1+b2).
The following NEW packages will be installed:
hackrf
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.

Now it's working better, audio ok but still very weak on the RX.

 

[dkcorlfla]

Update2: gave it my best shot. Tried to update the firmware but long story short is I believe from what I read the unit is not compatible with the current firmware. Going to try and return it.

 

[dlwtrunked]

Hi all, the HackOneRF I had on order from Aliexpress finally came in and it's looking like it was not worth the wait or the money.

I played around with the settings for a while and best I could do, the screen shots below show the RX on the RTL-SDRv3 is way better.

Also, the audio when testing on broadcast FM stereo is not even close to what the much cheaper RTL-SDRv3 does.

Unless I missed something, anyone have any ideas?

Thanks, Dale

Will your RTL-SDR receive above 2 GHz and up to 6 GHz? No. (HackRF One, it is not a HackOneRF.)
Will your RTL-SDR show you a band-spread/waterfall of its entire range at one? No--only a couple MHz (the HackRF One can.)
There are more questions and answers like this.
The HackRF One is not really designed for scanner use. That is the reason for "hack" in its name and not "scanner"). It is more of a hackers or analysts device or spectrum analyzer.
When you say weak on receive, it does not particularly excel there but I bet you have not set gain settings for optimum.

 

[dkcorlfla]

Sometime you get what you pay for. My mistake was buying one of the cheap clones instead of the original. I think the trouble I'm having with the unit has to it being a clone and the original is out of my budget at least for now. Maybe this fall I can order the real deal and give it another go.

Did find an interesting link: Comparing a HackRF Clone against the Original

I think the unit I received was even worse then the unit tested in the link above.

 

[dickie757]

snip....

(HackRF One, it is not a HackOneRF.)

.....snip

This is kinda what I was thinking.....he actually got a HackOneRF instead of a HackRF One.

 

[dkcorlfla]

Maybe it's One HackedRF ;-) In any case not impressed.

 

[dlwtrunked]

Sometime you get what you pay for. My mistake was buying one of the cheap clones instead of the original. I think the trouble I'm having with the unit has to it being a clone and the original is out of my budget at least for now. Maybe this fall I can order the real deal and give it another go.

Did find an interesting link: Comparing a HackRF Clone against the Original

I think the unit I received was even worse then the unit tested in the link above.

Something I could tell you though. On a receiver (not transmit) project, they had problems with the two HackRF One having spurious receptions (minor but project killing) regardless of the settings. I was brought in to help as they thought it was a software problem in their end. Turns out is was in the hardware itself and that the Chinese ones that I personally had do NOT have the same problem. We compared them side-by-side. Only difference we could find was the Chinese unit had shield absent in the U.S. made ones but adding shielding to those did not fix the problem. We never figured out the cause. This essentially killed the project as had the use U.S. and not Chinese as a source for the project. Sometimes you get better than what you pay for. But why mess with a HackRF One or RTL-SDR, for receiving, get an Airspy--it leaves those behind in the dust.

 

[dkcorlfla]

Something I could tell you though. On a receiver (not transmit) project, they had problems with the two HackRF One having spurious receptions (minor but project killing) regardless of the settings. I was brought in to help as they thought it was a software problem in their end. Turns out is was in the hardware itself and that the Chinese ones that I personally had do NOT have the same problem. We compared them side-by-side. Only difference we could find was the Chinese unit had shield absent in the U.S. made ones but adding shielding to those did not fix the problem. We never figured out the cause. This essentially killed the project as had the use U.S. and not Chinese as a source for the project. Sometimes you get better than what you pay for. But why mess with a HackRF One or RTL-SDR, for receiving, get an Airspy--it leaves those behind in the dust.

Thanks for the reply and info. I just looked up the Airspy R2 SDR and I believe that is what I should have bought. Despite having a Gen ham license I'm not really all that interested in HF. VHF and up interested me the most. I thought I would enjoy the HackRF One as it does cover a very wide range and I was interested in legal TX projects.

A while back I bought a SDRplay RSP1A hoping to get much better RX performance but it seems the SDRplay is mostly for HF and the Linux support not very good. They do have the new Connect software under development so maybe the Linux support will become much better.

So it looks like the RSP1A will stay on the shelf and if I can get a refund on the HackedRF I will order the Airspy R2

 

[dlwtrunked]

Thanks for the reply and info. I just looked up the Airspy R2 SDR and I believe that is what I should have bought. Despite having a Gen ham license I'm not really all that interested in HF. VHF and up interested me the most. I thought I would enjoy the HackRF One as it does cover a very wide range and I was interested in legal TX projects.

A while back I bought a SDRplay RSP1A hoping to get much better RX performance but it seems the SDRplay is mostly for HF and the Linux support not very good. They do have the new Connect software under development so maybe the Linux support will become much better.

So it looks like the RSP1A will stay on the shelf and if I can get a refund on the HackedRF I will order the Airspy R2

I have various RSP and Airspy models. I always find the Airspys to give a little better performance but it takes both an R2 and HF+ Discovery to cover both HF (in fact VLF) to UHF. Another nice thing is the Airspy are plug-and-play *in Windows* ( no mess with drivers if using SDRsharp)--I have never used them with LINUX..

 

[R0am3r]

A while back I bought a SDRplay RSP1A hoping to get much better RX performance but it seems the SDRplay is mostly for HF and the Linux support not very good. They do have the new Connect software under development so maybe the Linux support will become much better.

So it looks like the RSP1A will stay on the shelf and if I can get a refund on the HackedRF I will order the Airspy R2

Did you buy the RSP1A from a reputable dealer, or did you get it off a Chinese clone site? Where did you get the idea the SDRplay radios are "mostly for HF"? The tuner works from 1kHz (VLF) to 2GHz. I use my RSP1A radios 24/7 on VHF and UHF and they work great across the spectrum. If you are Linux user, have you tried SDRconnect?

 

[dkcorlfla]

Did you buy the RSP1A from a reputable dealer, or did you get it off a Chinese clone site? Where did you get the idea the SDRplay radios are "mostly for HF"? The tuner works from 1kHz (VLF) to 2GHz. I use my RSP1A radios 24/7 on VHF and UHF and they work great across the spectrum. If you are Linux user, have you tried SDRconnect?

I bought the SDRplay from HRO. The idea the RSP1A is mostly for HF came from when I tried to use SDRuno on my dual boot Windows10/Debian Buster computer I spent some time but could not figure out how to get it to tune UHF. All the presets are for HF. I ran some searchesand tried to direct enter the frequency but could not get it off HF. I don't like Windows and did not like the SDRuno program so I deleted it. I have not tried the Connect program yet. I plan to at some time.

 

[R0am3r]

@dkcorlfla You should also consider SDRTrunk for your RSP1A. The OS requirements are as follows:

Windows x86 (64-bit)
Linux x86/aarch64 (64-bit)
OSX x86/aarch64 (64-bit)

GitHub - DSheirer/sdrtrunk: A cross-platform java application for decoding, monitoring, recording and streaming trunked mobile and related radio protocols using Software Defined Radios (SDR). Website:

A cross-platform java application for decoding, monitoring, recording and streaming trunked mobile and related radio protocols using Software Defined Radios (SDR). Website: - DSheirer/sdrtrunk

github.com

 

[radar_hunter]

Will your RTL-SDR receive above 2 GHz and up to 6 GHz? No. (HackRF One, it is not a HackOneRF.)
Will your RTL-SDR show you a band-spread/waterfall of its entire range at one? No--only a couple MHz (the HackRF One can.)
There are more questions and answers like this.
The HackRF One is not really designed for scanner use. That is the reason for "hack" in its name and not "scanner"). It is more of a hackers or analysts device or spectrum analyzer.
When you say weak on receive, it does not particularly excel there but I bet you have not set gain settings for optimum.

HackRF has a maximum realtime bandwidth of 20 MHz - it can't show more than that much of spectrum at once. A spectrum scanning software is needed to analyze the entire 1 MHz to 6 GHz range but that will not happen in real time.

RTL-SDR has a realtime bandwidth of 2.56 MHz (2.4 MHz with less imaging), or up to 3.2 MHz with high risk of dropping samples. (Some USB controllers can handle that smoothly.) Similarly, a spectrum scanning software can be used with RTL-SDR to see 24 to 1700 MHz or whatever range is supported by the stick and the tuner chip that is used in it.

To @dkcorlfla,
I have heard a lot of criticism about HackRF sensitivity and RF performance. After all it's probably intended for laboratory type of use, not for weak signals and DX. Cheaply made clones might be even worse.

As for the settings, I think it's almost always recommended to enable DC removal and IQ balancing. Some software combine these options in one. Just my 2 cents...
Finding the optimal gain settings is also important but you may already have done that.

 

[dlwtrunked]

HackRF has a maximum realtime bandwidth of 20 MHz - it can't show more than that much of spectrum at once. A spectrum scanning software is needed to analyze the entire 1 MHz to 6 GHz range but that will not happen in real time.

RTL-SDR has a realtime bandwidth of 2.56 MHz (2.4 MHz with less imaging), or up to 3.2 MHz with high risk of dropping samples. (Some USB controllers can handle that smoothly.) Similarly, a spectrum scanning software can be used with RTL-SDR to see 24 to 1700 MHz or whatever range is supported by the stick and the tuner chip that is used in it.

To @dkcorlfla,
I have heard a lot of criticism about HackRF sensitivity and RF performance. After all it's probably intended for laboratory type of use, not for weak signals and DX. Cheaply made clones might be even worse.

As for the settings, I think it's almost always recommended to enable DC removal and IQ balancing. Some software combine these options in one. Just my 2 cents...
Finding the optimal gain settings is also important but you may already have done that.

What you said is "not quite" true. Look at HackRF SA and note note spectrum analyzer also is actually quite real time.

GitHub - pavsa/hackrf-spectrum-analyzer

Contribute to pavsa/hackrf-spectrum-analyzer development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

I use that when I am not using one of my SignalHounds. I do agree with most of the rest of what you said except the "clones" from my actual testing are not worse. Just being Chinese made or not the original manufacture does not make them "worse" ( as I noted, I tested 2 of each and a nearby company did the same thing with the same result--the U.S. made had issues with spurious response that were not present in the Chinese--that was the only difference we both found).
It is indeed more of a lab, development or experimenters circuit not really designed as a great receiver.

 

[dlwtrunked]

What you said is "not quite" true. Look at HackRF SA and note note spectrum analyzer also is actually quite real time.

GitHub - pavsa/hackrf-spectrum-analyzer

Contribute to pavsa/hackrf-spectrum-analyzer development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

I use that when I am not using one of my SignalHounds. I do agree with most of the rest of what you said except the "clones" from my actual testing are not worse. Just being Chinese made or not the original manufacture does not make them "worse" ( as I noted, I tested 2 of each and a nearby company did the same thing with the same result--the U.S. made had issues with spurious response that were not present in the Chinese--that was the only difference we both found).
It is indeed more of a lab, development or experimenters circuit not really designed as a great receiver.

They use of course tricks to do more than 20 MHz but they are good enough for most purposes. There is a technical paper somewhere on the web about what they do.

 

[spongella]

Thanks for the post. I've compared the HackRF to a number of SDR "dongles" over the past several years incuding the RTL-SDR.com version which I consider the gold standard.

Note that I bought the HackRF for it's extended band range though, not necessarily for HF Listening.

The only difference I noticed was that the RTL-SDR.com dongle was much more sensitive on the 400MHz public service band as compared to the HackRF. I could hear NYC police dispatches easily with the RTL.SDR while the Hack was deaf from here in NJ.

As for LW listening using the RTL-SDR with a Nooelec Upconverter, it was much more sensitive on Longwave for monitoring aeronautical beacons.

 

[radar_hunter]

What you said is "not quite" true. Look at HackRF SA and note note spectrum analyzer also is actually quite real time.

GitHub - pavsa/hackrf-spectrum-analyzer

Contribute to pavsa/hackrf-spectrum-analyzer development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

I use that when I am not using one of my SignalHounds. I do agree with most of the rest of what you said except the "clones" from my actual testing are not worse. Just being Chinese made or not the original manufacture does not make them "worse" ( as I noted, I tested 2 of each and a nearby company did the same thing with the same result--the U.S. made had issues with spurious response that were not present in the Chinese--that was the only difference we both found).
It is indeed more of a lab, development or experimenters circuit not really designed as a great receiver.

I'm not sure if I used the correct terminology, but no matter what trickery they use, there's no way HackRF could receive the whole 1 MHz to 6 GHz range at once. Not even a "small" fraction of that, even if they somehow found a way to get a bit more than 20 MHz.

Its ADCs and processing hardware are not capable of that, and if the 5999 MHz of bandwidth were transfered to the computer with 8-bit I/Q samples, it would also require 96 Gbit/s of data transfer capability which is many times more than what USB 3.x can provide.

In order to show a larger slice of spectrum than 20 MHz, it still has to sweep over the desired frequency range (tune in steps repeatedly), like the RTL-SDR has to. It can receive a larger slice at once of course. And I don't know if it can tune quicker than RTL-SDR.

With fast sweeping the spectrum can look almost like real-time even though it isn't.



In fact, I'm not sure if there are any SDRs that could receive around 6 GHz in one bunch. Per Vices Cyan can do 3 GHz per radio chain with its high-bandwidth option so it could show 6 GHz of spectrum continuously with two radio chains. Or with the standard 1 GHz option, with six radio chains. But it might still be unable to receive a hypothetical 5 GHz wide transmission for demodulation and decoding. Merging two or more chunks of spectrum like that is not at all trivial in practice, as far as I undertand it.

Aaronia Spectran Enterprise models can apparently receive 1500 MHz per radio chain at once but I see them being advertised with "only" 3 GHz of real-time bandwidth. So perhaps they can't run four chains simultaneously on their full capacity. I don't know.

Per Vices Cyan costs more than 100 000 dollars, and Aaronia's flagship products aren't probably much cheaper.




@spongella
The sensitivity issue sounds like what I have heard about the HackRF. I do not own one so I can't comment more about that.

 

[dlwtrunked]

I'm not sure if I used the correct terminology, but no matter what trickery they use, there's no way HackRF could receive the whole 1 MHz to 6 GHz range at once. Not even a "small" fraction of that, even if they somehow found a way to get a bit more than 20 MHz.

Its ADCs and processing hardware are not capable of that, and if the 5999 MHz of bandwidth were transfered to the computer with 8-bit I/Q samples, it would also require 96 Gbit/s of data transfer capability which is many times more than what USB 3.x can provide.

In order to show a larger slice of spectrum than 20 MHz, it still has to sweep over the desired frequency range (tune in steps repeatedly), like the RTL-SDR has to. It can receive a larger slice at once of course. And I don't know if it can tune quicker than RTL-SDR.

With fast sweeping the spectrum can look almost like real-time even though it isn't.



In fact, I'm not sure if there are any SDRs that could receive around 6 GHz in one bunch. Per Vices Cyan can do 3 GHz per radio chain with its high-bandwidth option so it could show 6 GHz of spectrum continuously with two radio chains. Or with the standard 1 GHz option, with six radio chains. But it might still be unable to receive a hypothetical 5 GHz wide transmission for demodulation and decoding. Merging two or more chunks of spectrum like that is not at all trivial in practice, as far as I undertand it.

Aaronia Spectran Enterprise models can apparently receive 1500 MHz per radio chain at once but I see them being advertised with "only" 3 GHz of real-time bandwidth. So perhaps they can't run four chains simultaneously on their full capacity. I don't know.

Per Vices Cyan costs more than 100 000 dollars, and Aaronia's flagship products aren't probably much cheaper.




@spongella
The sensitivity issue sounds like what I have heard about the HackRF. I do not own one so I can't comment more about that.

Yes, I know the "technicals". One need to define "at once". The software I suggested will be good enough for a spectrum analyzer. But if trying to actual receive (demodulate), a very wide signal, it will not do. But I know of no one here doing that as signals that. wide are very rare. Your name "radar_hunter" interest me as I have done a lot of looking at all sorts of radar. If not here, sent me a private message letting me know of your radar interest.

 

[PDXh0b0]

The Hackrf is great for testing tx/rx when creating with gnu or playing with arduino/modules...not so great at dx'n

Had fun with mine till it was stolen lol

You should try sdr++ with your rsp1a on Linux

I've always said, if you're wanting to do multiple things, thr rtl-sdr dongles are best.