Hamburg Angola Fire Control

[JimD88]

It definately has nothing to do with the scanner location - the problem persists on my handheld outside, my base in the house, and my mobile in the car (with outside rooftop antenna).

The possible causes I could think of were:

(1) that Hamburg Fire Control's output power on UHF is below what it would normally be right now while they continue to broadcast on both UHF and low band at the same time (are they actually transmitting on low band still and only simulcasting it on UHF or actually transmitting on UHF?), and my reception problems would be resolved once they go to UHF 100% (whenever that is)

OR

(2) they are transmitting on narrow band already and that has something to do with it but I don't fully understand how that impacts receiving on something like a scanner - I use a BC350 and a Radio Shack PRO-97. Both allow programming of the full 4 decimal frequency (454.0875) but I see some newer units like the BCT15X (and also the Motorola Minitors that the fire departments use) allow modulation selection between narrow and wide band within the same frequency and perhaps that "fine tunes" the reception better in those scenarios ?

I need help from you experts

Thanks

Jim

 

[nyemt774]

Jim, I think you're on the right track as far as transmit power being the issue with reception. Simulcasting to low band in my opinion really shouldn't affect the signal. And the fact it is doing the same thing to your all your scanners, that has to be the cause. I'll bet that given a little more time, the problem will correct itself as they work thru the conversion. Enjoy the nice weather!

 

[BTFire21]

Jim whereabouts in the Town do you live ?

 

[JimD88]

Hamburg / Angola Fire

Hi - I live in the northern fringe of Lakeview (I know this is a trouble spot for the current low band since they use the Angola link to manage it) but where I am does not seem to matter - I experience the same challenges when in the village, near Blasdell, etc. If you compare the expereince with let's say Cheektowaga Fire on 453.625, there I can hear it lowd and clear from Lakeview but I cannot hear Hamburg where the tower is much closer

The possible causes I could think of were:

(1) that Hamburg Fire Control's output power on UHF is below what it would normally be right now while they continue to broadcast on both UHF and low band at the same time (are they actually transmitting on low band still and only simulcasting it on UHF or actually transmitting on UHF?), and my reception problems would be resolved once they go to UHF 100% (whenever that is)

OR

(2) they are transmitting on narrow band already and that has something to do with it but I don't fully understand how that impacts receiving on something like a scanner - I use a BC350 and a Radio Shack PRO-97. Both allow programming of the full 4 decimal frequency (454.0875) but I see some newer units like the BCT15X (and also the Motorola Minitors that the fire departments use) allow modulation selection between narrow and wide band within the same frequency and perhaps that "fine tunes" the reception better in those scenarios

 

[BTFire21]

Im in Hamburg/Boston/Eden line area and I get them full strength in the mobile radio in my car that is still programmed for 25kz. I do know that with this being a simulcast system they have multiple transmitter sites that run lower power (40 watts or so) instead of 1 high power transmitter. The main transmitter sites that I know of for the Hamburg/Angola Frequency are:

East Eden Rd @ Schintzius Rd
Evans PD
Chesnut Ridge
Saia Site on Holland Glenwood

 

[JimD88]

Interesting. Well that simulcasting at multiple lower power sites might start to explain some things I am experiencing. Not the master tower on South Park, or is that going on when they finally stop low band ? I know that some of the departments in the town have already switched over their mobile and portable transmittors to the new UHF models, but do you know if any have switched over their Minitor pagers to the new UHF models and how are those handling the signal strength and bleedover from neighboring frequencies ?

 

[BTFire21]

Jim I believe that they will not have a repeater at the Town Hall. I am pretty sure they just have the transmitter for dispatch.

Some town companies have switched over to the UHF minitors.

The bleedover you are referring to is more of an equipment issues on your end. I know most scanners, particularly portables do not have very "tight" frontends which allows strong nearby signals to "bleedover". On my Icom mobile I drive to Amherst from Hamburg daily and for the last few days I have left Hamburg Fire in monitor mode (NO PL) and have not gotten any interference anywhere along the way.

 

[JimD88]

Thanks. Things are starting to make sense now. I assume the Motorola Minitor V's have the "tighter" front end you describe and receive the signal clean without the bleedover ?

 

[BTFire21]

Hamburg Fire Control UHF Cut Over

During the daily pager test Hamburg Fire Control made an announcement that as of 1700hrs tonight Hamburg Fire Control and companies will now be using 454.0875 as their primary dispatch frequency. For the interim they WILL continue to dispatch on 46.20

 

[Ben830]

400 Freq

There was just a message on the daily testing that as of 7:00 pm tonight they will be switching to the new 400 mgz freq. They will dispatch on both the low band and high band. Disptach will be on 459.0875. F-2 East and West will be for command use on 459.4125. Fire ground Ch 21 on 425.0500. Fire ground Ch 22 on 458.6625
This freq. are from the Hamburg Fire Cheif's Association.

 

[eriepascannist]

I think the 459 MHZ freqs are repeater inputs...

 

[GTR8000]

There was just a message on the daily testing that as of 7:00 pm tonight they will be switching to the new 400 mgz freq. They will dispatch on both the low band and high band. Disptach will be on 459.0875. F-2 East and West will be for command use on 459.4125. Fire ground Ch 21 on 425.0500. Fire ground Ch 22 on 458.6625
This freq. are from the Hamburg Fire Cheif's Association.

I think the 459 MHZ freqs are repeater inputs...

That's correct, they posted the input frequencies on the Chief's Association website. Please see posts #5 and #6 in this thread.

 

[JimD88]

Correct - I have found if you are near the dispatch center you can pick them up inputting on 459.0875 but not for much distance away. It is then repeated and strenghtened on 454.0875 along with all mobile units. So far I have not noticed any difference pre 7PM vs post 7PM other than after dispatch they give them an "operating" channel I assume for use on the scene which was for the call I heard CH 4 (F-2 EAST / WEST) which I beleive is 454.4125 / 459.4125

 

[JimD88]

Hamburg / Angola Fire Control

BTFire was right - the equipment change solved the problem. I bought a BCT15X (got it on Amazon for $180) to replace by older BC350C - big difference. Didn't even need to set tone squelch - the combination of being able to specifically set modulation per channel (to NFM in this case) along with I assume the newer technology's ability to better filter out transmissions on nearby frequencies solved the problem - no more interference and good signal all the way to Amherst. That alone was worth the price not to mention all the extra features and the ability to computer program.

Does anyone have a list of the tone settings for the different departments under Hamburg Fire Control ? I wanted to fool around with the fire tone-out feature on this radio

Jim

 

[ratneutski]

Having bleed over issues

I just got a BCT 8 scanner and Im trying to get Hamburg Dispatch to come over clearer. I am getting really bad bleed over from another frequency. Hamburg will tone out a call and my scanner will not stop on the channel. When it does I get bad interference. I still have my FD minitor running off 46.20 still on until it will no longer be good when the switch over permit to the 400 mhz. Is there a way to get rid of this bleed over? Thanks for the help.

 

[Mtnrider]

Dont know much about the BCT 8 but does it do PL tones? maybe you can set the local PL to block out the bleed over....also i dont think that one does the highband splinter channels....something coming down the road in your area i am sure...

 

[JimD88]

The interference you are getting on the BCT8 is on 454.0875 not 46.200 right ? I had the same problem - the issue is there is a very busy and strong signal on 454.1000 which "bleeds over" to 454.0875 on most scanners - BTFire described the reason above as the scanner is not tight enough to narrow the signal down to just the true frequency. The tone squelch (PL) is one possible solution as if set correctly, it will only open the audio when Hamburg Fire is broadcasting, but it will likely only eliminate the interference between Hamburg Fire transmissions and the signal could still be garbled while they are. However, that is a mute point as in looking at the specs I do not think the BCT8 supports tone squelch.

As I had mentioned above, I bought a BCT15X and have been extremely pleased with the results - that did solve the problem, and I did not even have to set the tone squelch on. That radio supports NFM modulation and just does a much better job of handling the interference and tuning it out - but it is a bit bigger in size than the BCT8. My previous BC350C was very similar to the BCT8 and was a mess trying to monitor this frequency - that is why I replaced it.

Do you live in the village ? Another option would be to monitor Hamburg Fire on 459.0875 instead of 454.0875. If you are in the village or close enough to the Town Hall, their input signal will be strong enough on that frequency for you to receive and based on my experience, there are no neighboring frequencies bleeding over on 459.0875. The down side is you won't pick up most of the mobile units as their signal strength on that input channel is weaker compared to the repeater on 454.0875 where you will hear every single unit.

I know they are still sending the signal out on 46.200 also, but I assume the time is coming when that will eventually cease and it will be 400mhz only ? I am guessing they are not going to cross band forever and are probably only doing so until all the departments change their minitors over to UHF - BTFire may have more info on that as the topic was also being discussed a bit earlier in this thread

 

[Fire-Fire]

Hamburg/Angola Dispatch

The poor quality audio is a system problem on the 400Mhz system - balancing of the repeaters not completely completed and within the past couple of weeks Motorola found a large dead area near the lake.

We have the same audio/signal quality problems on the fire radios as you hear on the scanner. Not sure exactly what the county is going to do but adding another repeater in the town of Evans is probably what will happen.

 

[JimD88]

I have gone through that dead area you describe I think - in the Lakeshore district area (Cloverbank, etc). As soon as you move inland at all it resolves.

Is that why they are still broadcasting on 46.200 at the same time ? I am assuming that will stop once these last few issues are resolved ? No chance of changing frequencies away from 454.0875 right ?

 

[BTFire21]

Is it a Transmit dead spot? I dont think it would be a receive problem because they have a voting site right on the lake at the sewage treatment plant across from the Ford Plant. Also I "think" they are putting some fire stuff on the new tower that is being built in Evans next to Sturgeon Point Marina on the property of the water plant.