Help With XPT LCN found but Some outstanding

[adsbgreenock]

Hi guys I wonder if it's possible for your wisdom on this matter. I have a system which I have analyzed and found 4/7 LCNs for an XPT system.
I have no clue how I work out the remaining ones or if any are missing?
I know there is a DMR T3 calculator, is there similar way of working out the missing data with XPT?

Any help is appreciated. This system is UK and is not in databases hence the post.

Thank you in advance

Regards

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

Program the frequencies without LCNs as conventional. If you hear no activity then the frequencies aren't in use. Keep in mind that just because a frequency is listed on a license doesn't guarantee its use

 

[adsbgreenock]

Program the frequencies without LCNs as conventional. If you hear no activity then the frequencies aren't in use. Keep in mind that just because a frequency is listed on a license doesn't guarantee its use

Thanks for your reply. I don't know what you mean regarding being listed on license. We have no database in the UK. We have to do things the slower way and use the search option of the scanner
The channels were found via search and also recorded voice activity on them.

Afterwards I entered them into a MotoTRBO system and added the Tgs/UIDs before using the analyse function. After two days there is 4/7 LCNs.. The same talk groups and UIDs are appearing on all the frequencies. But there appear to be no LCN being recorded

Regards

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

Your color codes are set to "search". Set them to the proper color code(s) and run LCN finder again. If still no joy & you confirmed there is indeed voice activity, program the frequencies with unknown LCNs as a separate site, entering correct color code(s) of course. Run LCN finder on the new site & you may have luck finding the unknowns

 

[werinshades]

Thanks for your reply. I don't know what you mean regarding being listed on license. We have no database in the UK. We have to do things the slower way and use the search option of the scanner
The channels were found via search and also recorded voice activity on them.

Afterwards I entered them into a MotoTRBO system and added the Tgs/UIDs before using the analyse function. After two days there is 4/7 LCNs.. The same talk groups and UIDs are appearing on all the frequencies. But there appear to be no LCN being recorded

Regards

Once that message "Found 4 of 7 LCN's" you'll be prompted to Save or not. Save them, once that's done, scan the system and you can determine if you're missing any radio traffic and have to try it again. "Unit 1 to base"...[no response from the base heard]...then Unit 1 starts talking would indicate an LCN is missing.

 

[adsbgreenock]

Once that message "Found 4 of 7 LCN's" you'll be prompted to Save or not. Save them, once that's done, scan the system and you can determine if you're missing any radio traffic and have to try it again. "Unit 1 to base"...[no response from the base heard]...then Unit 1 starts talking would indicate an LCN is missing.

Hey there thanks for your response.
OK so I've kept the frequencies with the found lcns separate and entered the outstanding into a system of its own and hit analyse again.

The weird thing is (why I didn't enter a cc) because there are two or three different colour codes all showing up on each of the frequencies and are active voice with the same TGIDs.

OK if the remaining LCN search is fruitless I'll scan the system and see if I can pick anything up.
I was thinking maybe one or two channels may be data or something?

Thanks again for the help. Much appreciated guys

Regards

 

[werinshades]

Could be data, could be another user(s) using the same frequencies. I can't be sure unless I was monitoring the system.

 

[u2brent]

Some could be conventional dmr (non trunked) those would not have an lcn to find.

 

[Ubbe]

Any help is appreciated. This system is UK and is not in databases hence the post.

As you have found LCN 1,2,3,8 there should also be 4,5,6,7, you still have to find one more frequenciency, and there's no relation to any frequency order so no calculator can be used.

Keep the color code at search and copy the non LCN channels to a OneFrequencySystem and copy the LCN channels to a new MotoTrbo trunked system.

Do IFX to all channels in the system that you use for the LCN finder and run the finder again to see if you get identical results to rule out any scanner issues. The LCN and also color codes should be consistant with every run of the LCN Finder.

Did you find the channels by conventional search and they where sending out some type of beacon idle data signal at even intervals and the display indicated XPT?

Do more searches between 462.000-468.000 using 12,5KHz steps.

Scan only that new system that has only valid LCN channels and the OFT system that has only channels that had no LCN and check if the OFT system sometimes has TG activity. When not monitoring set the scanner to record and scan only those two system without any priority set but do ID Search and let it scan even during night time. Then check the result if the range of the TG's seems logical and they appear on different frequencies. The best way are to use the Universal Scanner Audio Player to sort and analyze the recordings.

/Ubbe

 

[adsbgreenock]

Did you find the channels by conventional search and they where sending out some type of beacon idle data signal at even intervals and the display indicated XPT?

Do more searches between 462.000-468.000 using 12,5KHz steps.

Scan only that new system that has only valid LCN channels and the OFT system that has only channels that had no LCN and check if the OFT system sometimes has TG activity.

/Ubbe

Yes Ubbe I have done all of the above and have found another couple LCNs leaving one outstanding.
The TGs all appear on these frequencies but my problem is I live between two cities so I get overlap.
I am not sure if the LCN 1,1,8 at bottom belong to another system maybe. I do know 456.0125 and 456.4625 appear to be shared as the colour codes are different and TGs between 200-290 appear often.

Here is the updated results.
I can't make head nor tail of it



Regards

 

[Ubbe]

Here is the updated results.

They got at least two sites operational. Does it display XPT on all those frequencies?

You have one site using LCN1-2-3 and another site also using LCN1-2-3. Create an additional site in that new MotoTrbo system and only have those 3 channels LCN1-2-3 in each site, as that system will be the final result from your findings.

Usually you can look at the signal strength to tell the sites apart, if you use ProScan it also logs signal strength, as channels on one site should have the same signal strength. LCN 0 cannot be used in a system so it hasn't decoded it properly yet. You probably don't have enough signal strength for that, and then the color codes might be decoded with wrong values, so try and change the IFX setting and also filter from Normal to Invert and rerun the Analyze to see that you get consistant values each time you run it on that first evaluate site you use for the Analyze that has all channels in it in one common site.

If you look at the bit error rate, the D-ERROR value, for a weak signal you can switch to set the Filter to Off to see if the signal improves as that setting has the best sensitivity if you are not interfered.

/Ubbe

 

[adsbgreenock]

They got at least two sites operational. Does it display XPT on all those frequencies?

You have one site using LCN1-2-3 and another site also using LCN1-2-3. Create an additional site in that new MotoTrbo system and only have those 3 channels LCN1-2-3 in each site, as that system will be the final result from your findings.

Usually you can look at the signal strength to tell the sites apart, if you use ProScan it also logs signal strength, as channels on one site should have the same signal strength. LCN 0 cannot be used in a system so it hasn't decoded it properly yet. You probably don't have enough signal strength for that, and then the color codes might be decoded with wrong values, so try and change the IFX setting and also filter from Normal to Invert and rerun the Analyze to see that you get consistant values each time you run it on that first evaluate site you use for the Analyze that has all channels in it in one common site.

If you look at the bit error rate, the D-ERROR value, for a weak signal you can switch to set the Filter to Off to see if the signal improves as that setting has the best sensitivity if you are not interfered.

/Ubbe

Hi Ubbe,

Yes it displays XPT on them all.. I have done searches of the full band and there are no more XPT sites around UHF (or VHF) all the rest are Cap+or DMRT3.
So for Site 1:

453.3375 LCN 3
453.4625 LCN 2
456.0125 LCN 1

Site 2:

453.5000 LCN 3
453.8000 LCN 2
456.3375 LCN 1

The other XPT frequencies appear to just be beacons with a pulse I've never heard any voice on them. But I'm not sure something don't seem right with the frequency layout.

I've been at this for around a week now lol

 

[Ubbe]

The only frequency you can switch between the sites are the LCN1's. The others will be too close in frequency if you move them between sites.

Program all channels in a OFT system and scan that system and the two site system. If you first hear a conversation on the OFT system then continue scan and turn the dial to change the scan direction to repeatedly scan over the two site system to see if you can pick up that conversation that will prove that the LCN's and sites are correct.

/Ubbe