HF Hot Spot?

[wannabescannist]

Is there a hot spot for HF? All I've got is this PCR-100 & a J-Pole antenna on top of my TV in my 3rd floor apartment but never pick up more than the occasional CBer and most-likely RFI tones. I know night-time is probably the best time to scan propagation-wise, but within the past 10 minutes, the only things I've picked up:

13.8mhz (Christian)
13.69mhz (oriental)
11.93mhz (spanish?)
9.45mhz (gregorian chant or catholic hymns?)

 

[ka3jjz]

While there are things that can make 'hot spots' on HF, you're not helping your situation by using nothing more than a JPole on HF, even with a PCR100. With propagation so cruddy right now, it's all about....

a. Antennas -and-
b. Understanding propagation

Our antennas wiki has numerous articles that will give you some ideas; even on a third floor apartment, you should be able to pick up more. Putting an antenna up nice and high - even in an attic or crawlspace - will almost certainly do better than a JPole on HF.

However, the 2nd topic is a little more complex. While its true summer tends to be better for the higher frequencies, the lower bands are going to work just fine at night for another month or two, until the TStorm season really kicks in. Even during the summer, there are times when the lower bands are quiet. Our SWL and utility wikis both have links to sites where you can learn more about propagation, and how to make it work for you.

The other side of this is understanding what it is you are trying to hear. You didn't say much about your interests, but if we're talking broadcast listening, there's lots of stuff out there that can guide you. Utilities are a little more challenging, but there are some sites out there, along with mailing lists such as the UDXF, that will do a similar job. Of course, since the PCR100 is not capable of SSB, that's a real limitation....again, our wiki has lots of links that can be a help

73s Mike

 

[wannabescannist]

With propagation so cruddy right now, it's all about....

a. Antennas -and-
b. Understanding propagation

Yeah and those are the two topics I have the most trouble with (made a couple threads about antennas...thought I understood it afterwards but others convinced me that I didn't so I've given up on it for the time being).

The other side of this is understanding what it is you are trying to hear. You didn't say much about your interests, but if we're talking broadcast listening, there's lots of stuff out there that can guide you. Utilities are a little more challenging, but there are some sites out there, along with mailing lists such as the UDXF, that will do a similar job. Of course, since the PCR100 is not capable of SSB, that's a real limitation....again, our wiki has lots of links that can be a help

I guess anything that isn't broadcast. I do have my General ham ticket but no HF rig, if you will.

Also, about the j-pole, the reason I got it was #1 it's tall, and #2 I was told they have an omnidirectional pattern and that's what you need when there's lots of paths for signals in an apartment.

PS: what are utilities actually? I know it has something to do with digital but like a lot of stuff on the wiki, it assumes you already know a lot. I don't know what the HF spectrum looks like if you exclude Ham bands.

 

[trainman111]

Utilities aren't necessarily all digital. If you take a look at the utility monitoring wiki it gives a few examples. Trans-oceanic flights are huge users of the HF world, whether it be military or commerical flights. Ships out at sea also use HF (although not as much as they used to). The fed's use HF along with many other organizations. HF is also a whole different ballgame than scanning. Although I'm not the antenna expert, I do know that a J-pole won't do the job here. I'm sure Mike can help you out and give you some good suggestions on what a good antenna would be, but I've just got 25 feet of 14 gauge wire attached to 15 feet of Belden 9913 coax which is then attached to my receiver. I still have to ground the whole setup and such but at the moment it gets the job done.

 

[Don_Burke]

J-poles are pretty narrowbanded and show a low impedance when more than a bit off resonance.

Can you isolate the pole from ground and use the whole thing as a monopole?

 

[ka3jjz]

That's a very unique idea, Don - One I didn't consider. Certainly worth trying.

Wannabe, if you would jump on over to the antennas forum and say some more about your indoor situation there, it's likely you will get lots of suggestions. Sadly apartment/condo living limits what you can do. But if you have access to an attic or crawlspace, there's several options that are good possibilities (I've done it for over 20 years - never been real successful on transmitting HF, but have had more than my share of DX listening....). You will not damage your 100 if you put something up that doesn't work well - just your wallet.

Re propagation - I've said this before many times, and it's still true - one of the things that make HF completely different from scanning is that the ionosphere plays a huge role in what you can - and can't - hear. Any service on HF is impacted by exactly the same rules, whether it's as a ham, utilities, pirates, ect. Therefore, you must understand the basics about how it works. You do not need to be a solar astronomer with a Phd to understand the basics.
If you didn't understand what you read in the General manual on this topic, go back and read it again. Ask questions about the topics you don't get. In addition, use some of the websites in the wiki to continue your education. This website, called the AE4RV Propagation Primer (you will need a current Flash player to view this site) is not a bad place to start, although his WWV information is a tad dated. This topic is very critical to being successful in the HF game.

73s Mike

 

[mattcawby]

The past 10 minutes? I have had the HF radio on for six hours and got a P-3 and an E-6. You have to be prepared to spend a lot of time in front of the radio.

 

[N_Jay]

Is there a hot spot for HF? All I've got is this PCR-100 & a J-Pole antenna on top of my TV in my 3rd floor apartment but never pick up more than the occasional CBer and most-likely RFI tones. I know night-time is probably the best time to scan propagation-wise, but within the past 10 minutes, the only things I've picked up:

13.8mhz (Christian)
13.69mhz (oriental)
11.93mhz (spanish?)
9.45mhz (gregorian chant or catholic hymns?)

Dump the J-Pole. They are dumb antennas.

If you want HF and multiband, do this.

http://www.eham.net/articles/5087

The other good apatment antella is a slinky.

Get a good book on antennas, like the ARRL one.

 

[ka3jjz]

Boy, no one can say that EHam antenna is unobtrusive! It looks like a miniature Xmas tree - heck as long as it works....

A Slinky? Evidently from all that I've read on the subject, you really need to stretch that antenna out to make it work - and even at that, some folks swear by it, others at it....it's an interesting idea, but not my first choice. Of course, we have an antennas forum for this discussion (hint, hint) 73s Mike

 

[wannabescannist]

Any service on HF is impacted by exactly the same rules, whether it's as a ham, utilities, pirates, ect. Therefore, you must understand the basics about how it works. You do not need to be a solar astronomer with a Phd to understand the basics.
If you didn't understand what you read in the General manual on this topic, go back and read it again. Ask questions about the topics you don't get. In addition, use some of the websites in the wiki to continue your education. This website, called the AE4RV Propagation Primer.

My downfall is propagation at the instant it hits the air...e.g., antennas. Ionosphere, Sunspots, Ground-waves and other geo-related phenomena, I understand (for the most part). I've even re-read the General manual in full after I passed the test while concurrently reading the Extra manual. But for right now, radiation patterns are like the "hard question" on a test and will just be a "question" I'd have to come back to. I don't have a problem reading the graph as polar coordinates was Calculus 3 (I've done all Calc, Diff Eq, and Lin.Alg), it's just my inability of distinguishing what the axes are in a physical setting.

I've actually seen that flash animation before, probably saw it while studying for my General ticket (which is only 10 days old as far as when it showed up in the ULS DB).

I don't have access to anything except my apartment...and the storage room that's in the basement. I guess I could put an antenna down there. Just playing!

trainman, are those phone or CW communications? When I think Utilities in an RF setting, I think telemetry over RF for some reason.

Also, the PCR-100 has a ground screw on the back of it. I don't have it connected to anything. I know it should go to an earth ground but due to my altitude a long ground is a no-no. But this doesn't have anything to do with the PCR100s ability to receive, correct (only a safety-issue, right)?

N_Jay, one day I'll grab that book...I just hope it's not a collection of how to make this or that antenna. I don't make stuff (in all seriousness)...not because I don't want to, but because I never have.

 

[DPD1]

Any metal rain spouts or gutters near a window or balcony? Get a wire with an alligator clip, scrape some paint off the gutter, hook it up and see what happens. Just make sure you take it off in storms. The biggest problem in urban settings isn't always lack of reception, but the fact that what's out there is getting covered by noise. Each one of those units has wiring, TVs, hair dryers, and all kinds of cheap power supplies for people's electronic trinkets... When you listen to a freq, ideally you should hear very little noise. If you hear a lot of static and other stuff, that's all the interference, which is probably covering signals. And there's not a lot you can do about that, except get an antenna as far away from it as possible.

Maybe you can make a whip with a weighted ball on the bottom, then toss it up on the roof from your window like a Weeble Wabble. Wait, maybe I should patent that.

Dave
http://www.dpdproductions.com
- Custom Scanner, Aviation, MURS, GMRS, Marine & Ham Antennas -

 

[ka3jjz]

wannabe, utility HF stations use a variety of modes; voice, CW, digital (notice I didn't say RTTY - although there are a few stations still using this mode, it's very much a dead duck....) and other modes we as hobbyist types will never decode. Hunting down these signals is very much a game of patience, and to some extent, knowing where and when to look. While military stations comprise a good chunk of the users, there are many others, such as diplo (unclassified, natch), oil rigs, maritime stations (several broadcast weather forecasts) and several others. It's a catch all; a very broad generalization using negative logic would probably be where broadcast, ham and CB are not, you will, many times find utilities. 73s Mike

 

[wannabescannist]

Revisiting this old topic; thanks for all the helpful hints on reception, but let's say my HF antenna setup was somewhat decent. What bands should I tune to (around this time) in order to increase the chance of hearing someone? I realized I have no business buying a $500 HF transceiver if I can't even hear anyone (except noise) on a receiver (Radioshack DX-402 aka Sangean ATS-505).

I do have the Sangean Ant-60 Portable SW antenna (the small roll-up single wire one that terminates to a mono mini-jack).

 

[k9rzz]

Just to stick my nose into the discussion:

Here's Monitoring Times' Top 1000 HF Frequencies

http://www.grove-ent.com/mttopHF.html

Check the aeronautical HF frequencies, they are quite active 24/7.

As far as the antenna, get something outside, some how. Even 2 feet of wire outside will help. Until then, just unplug the coax connector from your radio just enough to use the center of the coax, leaving the shield off. Use tape to insulate the ground if you have to. That will help and will not hurt the radio.

 

[gcgrotz]

I didn't see a mention of TV interference, with the antenna on top of the TV it would probably be wise to unplug it when trying to SWL as there are many circuits still powered up even when turned off.

As for a j-pole, it may be OK on a specific VHF frequency, it won't hear much on shortwave. I've used the roll-up wire before on my Sony '7600 and it works fairly well. Any kind of wire stretched around the room will work better that a j-pole.

A general rule these days is that above 20 meters (14 MHz) is pretty dead by evening so listen lower. If you tune the SW broadcast bands you will get an idea of what freqs are most active at that time. You won't hear much on 15 MHz at night.

Good luck and keep trying stuff and eventually something will work.

 

[WA1CRZ]

WWV Colorado 10 Mhz & CHU Canada 7.335 Mhz are good stations for checking propagation.

 

[kb2vxa]

Hi Wannabe and all,

Getting right to the point, you'd need a mighty BIG J-pole for HF, you're using the wrong antenna. For general coverage listening a "long wire" 50' give or take will do nicely and is about the easiest to do. If you can't string a wire just put a few ounces of lead fishing weight on the end and lower it out the window to within a few feet of the ground. When not in use it's easily rolled up and set aside. Multi-strand "super flex" antenna wire is best because it won't kink and tangle easily. Just don't let it touch aluminium siding or anything that may short and become part of the antenna, that can cause unwanted noise pickup from wiring and electronics in the building.

Generally speaking DX wise, above 10MHz are daytime bands, below are nighttime bands.

 

[wannabescannist]

I'm using a long wire antenna (Sangean ANT-60) and have finally gotten around to sitting down and being patient listening for activity. Receiving Broadcast shortwave seems to not be a problem. I tend to pick up 5-9MHz at night and 9-17MHz in the day time. But I'm having a problem receiving SSB stations, and I think it's cause my SSB tuning is incorrect.

Anyone have a Radioshack DX-402 (aka Sangean ATS-505)? As far as I understand, with this radio, switching from AM to SSB reception just runs (around?) a 3KHz bandpass centered at the frequency you are tuned to.

In order to receive USB (on this radio), I think I have two ways of doing so:
1) Set the tuning frequency at transmitting_stations_frequency + 1.5Khz, if I do not use the +/- Clarify control.
2) Set tuning frequency to transmitting_stations_frequency, and use the clarify control to push me up 1.5Khz.

Correct so far? The manual says: "Each clarify tuning step varies by 1.5Khz", however the clarify control is an analog wheel, so does that mean the furthest displacements from center of the clarify control are 1.5KHz?

I'm picking up some activity on the low side of the 20meter band, but I'm confused as to what tone I'm supposed to be hearing. Rotating the clarify control moves the pitch up & down. Receiving telephone & rotating clarify moves the pitch from devilish to chipmunkish.

In conclusions I just want to figure out the correct way to tune USB or LSB on this DX-402 radio so that, given a frequency & mode of operation, I already know what to do.

Link to audio sample of sounds I'm hearing: http://www.divshare.com/download/2963525-994

...this is just until I get my ICOM 718 operational.

 

[mattcawby]

Nice noises, but you should be trying for something like this, a P-3 chasing submarines:

http://www.microvoltradio.com/vr1355/redhook.mp3

 

[wannabescannist]

Exactly they're just noises to me...I'm trying to find out what is the correct noise I should be hearing (if that makes any sense).