• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.

How does GMRS compare with CB radio?

Status
Not open for further replies.

WQWG712

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Messages
52
Location
Garland Texas
CB Radio is Dead and very Unusefull when it comes to Range and Reliability!

A Powerful Tuned CB radio with good Antenna can get out About 2 miles.

CB is 27Mhz unlike GMRS which is 460Mhz works very well in city and range!

GMRS can Go 60 Miles using 5 watts power using a Repeater.

CB is Extreamly Un Reliable for communication!
 

Project25_MASTR

Millennial Graying OBT Guy
Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
4,557
Location
Texas
CB Radio is Dead and very Unusefull when it comes to Range and Reliability!

A Powerful Tuned CB radio with good Antenna can get out About 2 miles.

CB is 27Mhz unlike GMRS which is 460Mhz works very well in city and range!

GMRS can Go 60 Miles using 5 watts power using a Repeater.

CB is Extreamly Un Reliable for communication!

10-15 miles is fairly reliable if everything is tuned properly (still talking about legal output power) on a properly setup antenna system (talking mobile to mobile over flat terrain). I actually had those results fairly regularly several years ago but when in the cities it wasn't nearly as reliable.

Now, GMRS is much more consistent and really only dependent on terrain. If you have LOS, you can talk.
 

krokus

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
6,228
Location
Southeastern Michigan
CB Radio is Dead and very Unusefull when it comes to Range and Reliability!

A Powerful Tuned CB radio with good Antenna can get out About 2 miles.

CB is 27Mhz unlike GMRS which is 460Mhz works very well in city and range!

GMRS can Go 60 Miles using 5 watts power using a Repeater.

CB is Extreamly Un Reliable for communication!

It sounds like you have not had good CB setups, and/or tried using it in areas with a lot of interference.

GMRS has a very limited range, too, depending on your setup.

Sent via Tapatalk
 

ElroyJetson

Getting tired of all the stupidity.
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 8, 2002
Messages
3,972
Location
Somewhere between the Scylla and Charybdis
Maybe it's just a regional phenomenon, but CB gives every appearance to me of being absolutely 100 percent useless due to all 40 channels being jammed constantly, usually by some jerk whose high power rig is overmodulated and splattering across all 40 channels and a whole lot more.

My opinion of CB is too low to be measured, specifically due to that sort of individual. Clean those idiots out, destroy their equipment, and maybe after that it'd be useful for actually communicating again.
 

n0xvz

Member (barely)
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
371
Location
San Angelo, TX
Stuffed in the GMRS radio box (along with the other stuff nobody reads) is the instructions on how to get a license. Often it's mentioned on the box as well (like most restrictions, in very small type). The FCC could enforce it since the user is required to ID, similar to on ham radio, so folks that don't ID could be located and fined (at least for not IDing and if they didn't have a license for that violation as well). What are the chances of this happening though? Well, if you do get a NAL from the FCC, I would definitely get several winning lottery tickets since the chances are similar.

One thing to keep in mind though. FCC violations generate fines and fines are income to the government. If there's enough of a budget shortfall, they just might start taking enforcement action to raise money. With a possible fine of $10,000 per violation (could be read as each day's operation without a license is a violation), it's not something to sneeze at, even if the chance of being caught is very small.

Thanks for the info! Trust me, I totally get what you're saying.

If I did the search correctly, I'm showing 10 GMRS licenses in my town (pop. ~100,000). I find it incredibly hard to believe that there are only 10 folks using GMRS (and not on FRS channels/power). Leads me to believe the FCC does not care...but not enough that I'm willing to accept the fine if I'm wrong! :D

So yeah, I have a CB for emergency use. Or, when I have the travel trailer on the highway. I look at it as one more tool in my tool box. Each has their limitations and benefits. YMMV...
 

wa1nic

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 28, 2012
Messages
263
Location
Westfield, Ma
SSB on CB with a good (1/4 wave) mobile antenna will usually give more distance than a mobile GMRS ever could (without using a repeater or Mountain topping of course).

The CB channels haven't been jammed for years. After internet happened, most people left CB an never came back. Sometimes is is hard to find a channel with anyone at all on it.
 

WQWG712

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Messages
52
Location
Garland Texas
CB does not Compare at all!

CB is AM radio at 27.0 Mhz and Very poor in Range and reliability! I do not think CB is good for anything!!!

GMRS is FM 460Mhz Provides Clean Clear Audio and can cover 60 Miles with Repeater.
GMRS Radio you can choose any UHF radio for your application as long as it is programmed
to the frequencies and Correct PL tone!
 

mirrorshades

Member
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
28
GMRS Radio you can choose any UHF radio for your application as long as it is programmed to the frequencies and Correct PL tone!

Technically, the radio you use for GMRS must be type-certified for Part 95 operation by the FCC.
 

KD8DVR

Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2004
Messages
1,368
Location
Columbus, Ohio
Thanks for the info! Trust me, I totally get what you're saying.

If I did the search correctly, I'm showing 10 GMRS licenses in my town (pop. ~100,000). I find it incredibly hard to believe that there are only 10 folks using GMRS (and not on FRS channels/power). Leads me to believe the FCC does not care...but not enough that I'm willing to accept the fine if I'm wrong! :D

The rest are probably illegally operating on GMRS without a license. For every one person who gets a license, there are 1000 operating illegally.
 

johnls7424

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
1,324
Location
Somewhere in NJ
The rest are probably illegally operating on GMRS without a license. For every one person who gets a license, there are 1000 operating illegally.

Same can be said with people who pirate business bands as well. Like taxi cab companies. Granted it's a lot better now a days then it was, but living near New York City ( metropolitan area) I know that was a big problem in the 80's and 90's.
 

Project25_MASTR

Millennial Graying OBT Guy
Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
4,557
Location
Texas
Same can be said with people who pirate business bands as well. Like taxi cab companies. Granted it's a lot better now a days then it was, but living near New York City ( metropolitan area) I know that was a big problem in the 80's and 90's.

Motorola DMR repeaters have an issue with this when being operated in Tier 2. They are setup to pass anything...it won't network but the way DMR is setup you could setup your own TG and CC on mobiles/portables and "pirate" usage and the owners wouldn't know unless they had a way of monitoring all traffic through the repeater. Hytera and Simoco have the ability to only pass what they are programmed to pass in Tier 2 setup.

Many of the cab services are moving to DMR...
 

johnls7424

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
1,324
Location
Somewhere in NJ
Motorola DMR repeaters have an issue with this when being operated in Tier 2. They are setup to pass anything...it won't network but the way DMR is setup you could setup your own TG and CC on mobiles/portables and "pirate" usage and the owners wouldn't know unless they had a way of monitoring all traffic through the repeater. Hytera and Simoco have the ability to only pass what they are programmed to pass in Tier 2 setup.

Many of the cab services are moving to DMR...

That is true I never even thought of that.
 

KD0PEZ

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2013
Messages
66
Location
Goldsboro, NC
The main issue with CB is, it is not exactly a reliable service. It never has been. It operates on a frequency that is susceptible to skywave propagation. In other words, when skip is rolling, you might not be able to talk to Billy Bob 2 miles up the road, but you might be able to talk to Joe Schmoe in the next state over. Or maybe your signal will get lost in the mix with everyone else's.

But in 1958 so they say, the technology wasn't "good enough" to make CB a reliable service anywhere but 27 MHz. Otherwise to this day, I cannot begin to understand why the FCC would use an HF band for a local citizens channel, yet stipulate no talking past 155 miles.

The first CB's were based at 465 MHz. They claim the issue was the radios couldn't talk much past 3/10's of a mile. Funny thing is the FRS radios of today seem to have similar characteristics. I read somewhere that they took one of the 465 MHz CB radios (a Vocaline JRC-400 if I recall correctly) and went on top of a tall building and saw a good increase in range. Well, that's no surprise. When it comes to local chat, height is might. Those lunchbox Vocalines had little antennas on the radio itself. I don't think you could add an external antenna. Now think how good one is going to "get out" when it's sitting on your kitchen counter top at maybe 5 feet up. Even an FRS radio of today I highly doubt could do any better.

Another reason CB is not exactly reliable is because of the mode it is on. It's on AM. (In the U.S. anyways) That means it's very susceptible to noise, particularly lighting storms, electric fuel pump interference, fan motors, fluorescent lamps, ignition noise, you name it. Compared to FM, AM downright sucks in terms of clarity.

So there you have it....an AM radio service on the HF band. Not exactly a clear winner here. Oh but there's been petitions to "move" CB to the VHF band of 220 MHz. IMO this should have been allowed to happen, and give 11 meters back to the hams or use it only for RC cars and diathermy machines. But unfortunately for whatever reason, the hams of 1973 shot down this idea. I have no idea why, especially when you consider today, the 220 MHz band is seldom used. Heck I think a portion was sold to UPS some years back and from what I have gathered, lies mostly dormant. Plus on VHF truck drivers for once could run a full size antenna and NOT those fiberglass whips with 9 feet of wire coiled around them. Think about that for a second...they would probably have a little bit better range over a comparable CB antenna, not have nearly as much of skip issues, maybe wouldn't need to run an amp. Plus make it FM and NOT AM. I see a win win here.

At best, the FCC has authorized the use of MURS which is like VHF CB, too bad it's not caught on yet. Plus most MURS radios are HT's. Radioshack did sell a business band radio that ran on MURS before the FCC reallocated it for MURS use. Maybe if someone wanted to pick up the ball and start making mobile MURS rigs with an antenna and sell them at truck stops....who knows.
 

linboogy

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 13, 2011
Messages
83
Another difference is that you can get drunk and (belch) in to the microphone on a CB. Not really on GMRS
 

gewecke

Completely Banned for the Greater Good
Banned
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Messages
7,452
Location
Illinois
Another difference is that you can get drunk and (belch) in to the microphone on a CB. Not really on GMRS
. It has happened, but usually on simplex. No comparison between cb and Gmrs as far as I'm concerned. Much more capability with Gmrs than cb, clearer audio, better range, Dcs/Ctcss, Inverted Dcs, Non standard pl's, Dtmf, smaller more efficient antennas for starters. :). 73, n9zas
 

Assenphat

Newbie
Joined
May 30, 2016
Messages
2
The rest are probably illegally operating on GMRS without a license. For every one person who gets a license, there are 1000 operating illegally.

I'm thinking more like whatever the number of sales of FRS/GMRS radios is, figure about 98-99% of those who (knowingly or unknowingly) operate on the included GMRS frequencies are unlicensed. Upon visiting to a local amusement park and a fireworks show way back in the early 2K's when my wife and I used FRS/GMRS radios in case we lost each other, every frequency was just trashed with call beeps and gibberish, not dissimilar to CB (AKA "Children's Band), we dumped the radios and never tried them again. That of course was long before cell phone plans became the norm for families and children.

Nowadays families (and their kids) use cell phones, which seems to me to be solely responsible for getting kids and other lawbreakers off the GMRS frequencies, to the point where GMRS is dead in my area now whereas it was virtually useless 15 years ago. Why the FCC allowed manufacturers to produce radios with mixed licensing (and in small print on bubble packages!) is beyond logic and comprehension. In my opinion, if the FCC is going to allow manufacturers that much slack, then it should be illegal for the FCC to prosecute individuals who don't know, understand, or follow the laws. It's completely misleading to consumers, and makes it WAY too easy for the FCC to slap serious fines and jail terms on unwitting users merely trying to have summertime fun at camp, on the beach, at the park, etc. In the name of integrity, WTH is going on here??

That said, I recently purchased my GMRS license (yes, I have my call sign and want to be totally legal as I plan to get my Ham Tech license soon) which allows me (and my family) to xmit up to 5 watts on FRS/GMRS shared channels 1-7, 50w on GMRS-only channels 15-22, and 5W on the GMRS-only interstitial channels (repeaters).

Practically no one uses FRS or GMRS in my town today - thank God for cell phones! But that's all subject to change quickly in the event of an emergency. In that case I wouldn't be surprised if most of those families pulled out their old FRS/GMRS radios, loaded some AA's and gave them to their grand children to run off and play with again.

But hey, there's always hope.
 

K6GBW

Member
Joined
May 29, 2016
Messages
884
Location
Montebello, CA
"every frequency was just trashed with call beeps and gibberish, not dissimilar to CB (AKA "Children's Band)"

This was so true back then. Today, even here in Los Angeles the FRS/GMRS/MURS frequencies are pretty clear. With the advent of the cell phone I think a lot of people simply abandoned radio altogether. That said, there are still a lot of people that have a legitimate need for a short range (less then 10 mile ish) radio. Off road vehicles, truckers, hikers, campers, hunters, various sportsmen etc.

For too long we've had a cumbersome, ineffective and ill conceived public radio service in the CB. The antennas alone are a pain and the HF frequency and AM noise are annoying. What the country needs is a UHF or VHF simplex CB service with a reasonable amount of power and external antennas. Either UHF or VHF would work fine and 5-10 watts would do the job. Just look at the Australian UHF CB service to see how it can be done. It even allows for a few repeater channels for those that are inclined to use them.

With the gravitation of public service to 800 trunked systems, and narrow banding, the possibility exists that such a service could be born from either the GMRS or MURS service. I know that a small five watt VHF radio with a tiny little 18" quarter wave antenna will talk out reliably for 3-5 miles. Off road vehicle drivers and others would love this!
 

wa1nic

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 28, 2012
Messages
263
Location
Westfield, Ma
I suspect that most of the users of CB who have experienced only very short ranges are using antennas that really aren't working out well.

A $10 , four foot CB antenna works about as well as a $100, four foot CB antenna... poor at best. Price doesnt matter... size matters.

Most CB antennas that I see are ether mag mounts or else L-brackets screwed to either a pickup bed (better) or a spare tire rack (worse), each with a 4 foot something screwed into it. Not only does the short antenna hurt, a crappy mounting setup will hurt as well.

Compared to a full sized (9 foot) antenna, a 4 CB foot antenna is only about 20% efficient. Anything shorter than 7 foot is going to start sucking noticeably and give you a bad experience.

In my experience, without resorting to a repeater, a legal poweered CB with a good antenna will usually give at least as good, if not better useful range than a GMRS setup in similar locations.

The plus that GMRS has going for it is the antennas are a lot less awkward, and if you have access to a repeater the range can be awesome.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
26,699
Location
United States
All valid points. What would be nice is if the FCC would allow FM use on CB. Many countries use FM on these frequencies effectively. Add in CTCSS and DCS squelches, and CB could be bearable again.

The plus that GMRS has going for it is the antennas are a lot less awkward, and if you have access to a repeater the range can be awesome.

Like I said above, CTCSS and DCS squelch makes GMRS useful. Having to listen to audio excrement from my CB is what lead me to get rid of it. No reason to listen to that garbage when there are better resources.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top