How to attach vertical run of #6 ground wire to vinyl siding

[N4GEX]

I'm considering installing an gable mounted mast for a scanner antenna, but one thing has me stumped: how can I secure the vertical run of #6 ground wire from the mast to the ground rod? My house has vinyl siding, so I've ruled-out drilling holes & installing wire clamps with screws because it would "pin" the siding and prevent it from sliding freely as it expands & contracts. I don't want 30+ feet of ground wire just dangling in the breeze without proper support. Any ideas?

 

[buddrousa]

Are you good at bending 1/2 ridged conduit? Will have to use a 3/4 bender for 1/2 ridged.
Support it at the top support it at the bottom to a rod in the ground.
It would not look bad and should stay straight.

 

[phask]

If possible, I run in the edge trim, not sure just what the true term is. Dish, Spectrum, all seem to do the same. I have 3 or 4 runs of coax and the small ground wire that Dish uses behind mine.

 

[prcguy]

You can use PVC conduit and paint it to match your siding. Is this the main ground rod for your house electrical panel or a separate one you installed? If its separate, code requires you to bond that ground rod to the main house ground rod.

 

[N4GEX]

Are you good at bending 1/2 ridged conduit?

Nope, I never had the occasion. Are you referring to EMT conduit? I don't have the tool needed for bending that.

If possible, I run in the edge trim, not sure just what the true term is.

The corner trim? I thought of that, but there's a hitch. The top edge of the corner trim abuts the soffit vent, and there's no clear path for the ground wire to exit without making some hard bends. Lightning doesn't like hard bends, so I need to keep that in mind. See the photo below for illustration.

You can use PVC conduit and paint it to match your siding. Is this the main ground rod for your house electrical panel or a separate one you installed?

Any solution involving conduit makes me wonder how I'd attach it firmly. Seems like I'd just be shifting the problem from the wire to the conduit. This would be a new ground rod, and I am planning to bond it to the main service ground.

This photo shows how I'm planning to install things:



I need to secure the ground wire from that lightning arrestor enclose down to the ground rod some 30 feet below. As you can see, routing ground wire through the corner trim would require some unacceptably hard bends. I can secure the diagonal run from the mast to the enclosure with clamps screwed into the aluminum-covered fascia board, but that vertical drop has me flummoxed.

 

[prcguy]

I would run the coax and ground wire under the eaves immediately below the mast up against the siding and under eaves at the junction of the yellow siding and white underside of the eaves and down to the area you show where the enclosure is, but move the enclosure around the corner to the left so its under the eaves. Use an appropriate size ground wire with white insulation and run it down the corner along the vertical white colored edge of the wall. You can get TV coax nails with white plastic cable holders that should blend in with the white vertical part of your siding and the white wire all the way to the ground.

 

[buddrousa]

Not thin wall EMT but thick wall ridged threaded 1/2 I have run this several times secured only top and bottom to get to cameras mounted where I had no access from attic to get to where the customer wanted the camera mounted.

 

[N4GEX]

I would run the coax and ground wire under the eaves immediately below the mast up against the siding and under eaves at the junction of the yellow siding and white underside of the eaves and down to the area you show where the enclosure is...

How would you secure it to that junction? Remember, that area is all vinyl (something which I'm really starting to loath), so I'd like to avoid nails & screws. I've simplified the drawings in these photos, but in reality there would be 2 runs of LMR-400 coax and the #6 ground wire.

...but move the enclosure around the corner to the left so its under the eaves.

I considered that, but I'm not sure the enclosure will fit. I need to get up there with a ladder and measure the space available. Assuming it fits, I suppose I could route the wires like so:



They'd still be secured to the fascia, but after that last clamp I may be able to wrap them around to the top of the arrestor enclosure avoiding any hard bends. Where the ground wire exits the enclosure I could press it into the gap where the corner trim extends over the siding. I tested this at ground-level:



I tested only about 3 feet of #6 wire, but you can see spots where the wire is sandwiched between the siding and the trim. I wonder if this will keep it from popping out of the gap. There are about 4 feet of brick foundation below the bottom edge of the siding, so I could secure the wire with clamps & anchor screws from that point down to the ground rod.

 

[mmckenna]

That looks like a good plan.

There's no requirement that the lightning arrestor be inside a box, but if you want to do it for aesthetics, it won't hurt.

#6 isn't going to fit into that gap. If I was doing this, I'd either secure it directly to the corner trim, or attach a piece of 1/2" PVC conduit to the trim and run it down that. The PVC conduit can be roughed up with some sandpaper and painted to match the trim.
Or, remove the corner trim, run the #6 inside there, and reattach the trim piece.

Ideal scenario for lightning path is to keep the run straight as possible with no bends. Sounds like it's not an option, but a perfect scenario would be the ground wire coming directly down from your mast to your grounding rod network.

 

[mc48]

If that siding is like mine that corner trim is hollow and you can run the wire on the inside of it if you like.

 

[prcguy]

I would use white TV coax nails right into the siding or even the cable clamps with screws that you show. Its easy to fix if you pull it all out, just deburr each nail or screw hole with a countersink and fill with same color Latex caulk, I do this all the time and you can't locate any repairs.

Although its impossible for you to protect your radio equipment from lightning damage, its still good to follow best practice for running the ground wire, which is as straight as possible and any bends should be gentle. The ground wire can bend away from the bottom of the mast to the siding under the eaves then down the crotch of the eaves then a wide and gentle 45deg turn straight down to the ground, which is hopefully the main house ground or a rod bonded to the main house ground.

How would you secure it to that junction? Remember, that area is all vinyl (something which I'm really starting to loath), so I'd like to avoid nails & screws. I've simplified the drawings in these photos, but in reality there would be 2 runs of LMR-400 coax and the #6 ground wire.



I considered that, but I'm not sure the enclosure will fit. I need to get up there with a ladder and measure the space available. Assuming it fits, I suppose I could route the wires like so:

View attachment 95336

 

[n5ims]

Just remember to make all of your turns with the minimum proper radius. Sharp bends are a real NO with grounding. Use a smooth gentle bend at all times (I generally use a minimum 6" radius for my bends) since lightning will use that sharp bend to jump from the ground wire to whatever is nearby (like a wire inside your house). Also, like others have said, follow all codes to keep your install safe and effective.

 

[phask]

That's what I meant on the corner, once you push past where the siding locks in there is usually a ton of room.

Another thing, on the gable though it's a pita, pull the soffet loose and put it all behind it. My vinyl is over existing siding and behind the soffits a there is a lot of room. On a home with only vinyl there should be nothing but air.

 

[W5lz]

...paint and glue.

 

[ka3aaa]

run downspout from ground level clear up to your mast bottom and run the ground wire down thru the downspout to a ground rod at that point.

 

[WA8ZTZ]

Do not run a grounding electrode conductor in ferrous metal conduit...
doing so will create a choke.

 

[mmckenna]

Do not run a grounding conductor in metal conduit...
doing so will create a choke.

True, however it can be done if you use grounding bushings on the conduit entrance and exit.

PVC conduit is preferred, and usually is a better choice when used on the exterior of a building anyway.

 

[prcguy]

Its pretty standard practice to run a ground wire in metal conduit when its exposed to humans, especially in a commercial environment. That can have some RF choking properties but would only be important if the conduit was in the main ground wire off a tower or antenna that would carry a main strike to ground. A choke might "push" the lightning towards something less desirable as a ground.

I think if you read the NEC there are comments about running a ground wire in conduit in certain cases.

Do not run a grounding electrode conductor in ferrous metal conduit...
doing so will create a choke.

 

[WA8ZTZ]

Its pretty standard practice to run a ground wire in metal conduit when its exposed to humans, especially in a commercial environment. That can have some RF choking properties but would only be important if the conduit was in the main ground wire off a tower or antenna that would carry a main strike to ground. A choke might "push" the lightning towards something less desirable as a ground.

I think if you read the NEC there are comments about running a ground wire in conduit in certain cases.

The requirement is that a grounding electrode conductor in ferrous metal conduit be bonded to the conduit at both ends.
There are special grounding bushings designed for this specific purpose.
An earlier post in this thread made no mention of the need for the bonding, hence my comment in post #16.

 

[R8000]

I use siding clips bought from Amazon for my CCTV cabling. They aren't made to hang anything heavy, but for just keeping a wire tidy and not blow in the wind, I found them to be very decent. They have several different styles, might be worth a shot.