How to find Radio IDs / Talkgroups of local fire station?

[AC7FD]

Dear Forum,

I started monitoring my local fire traffic and have some questions for experienced users.
The system I'm listening to is the "Idaho Cooperative Agencies Wireless Interoperable Network", a P25 phase 1 system. My county (ADA) is using simulcast.
I'm currently listening to the dispatch talk group and try to figure out which radio id or talk group (I'm not sure what the correct term is) my local fire station is using.
I'd like to monitor only the local traffic, in best case program my scanner and pager to only open to a dispatch call for the local station and the switch to the assigned channel/talk group.
My problem is: I don't know how to identify just dispatch calls for my local station.
I found in the RR database the talk group for the dispatch channel, and I found the talk groups for the channels the dispatcher assigns to the unit for the alarm.
Can someone with experience help me understand what information I need and how to decode it, please?
I have a Uniden BCD536HP, a SDS200 (once back from repair), a Unication G5 and an Airspy SDR.
I can see "from" IDs in the SDR-Trunk software and on the Unication display when someone is transmitting.
I thought I'm clever and started writing them down whenever a unit identified itself. But I figured out over time that these IDs change.
This morning Ladder 5 used 12345 as an ID and in the evening it's suddenly 54321....

What information do I need and how would you try to collect it?

Thanks for your help.

T

 

[mc48]

Ladder 5 probably has more than one UID, there is most likely one for the mobile radio and several others for portables.
You can start to list them by unit in the Sentinel software and they will display on the radio for you to verify.
Go to Edit>select favorites>select system>Unit ID's and enter the alias.

 

[JethrowJohnson]

Dear Forum,

I started monitoring my local fire traffic and have some questions for experienced users.
The system I'm listening to is the "Idaho Cooperative Agencies Wireless Interoperable Network", a P25 phase 1 system. My county (ADA) is using simulcast.
I'm currently listening to the dispatch talk group and try to figure out which radio id or talk group (I'm not sure what the correct term is) my local fire station is using.
I'd like to monitor only the local traffic, in best case program my scanner and pager to only open to a dispatch call for the local station and the switch to the assigned channel/talk group.
My problem is: I don't know how to identify just dispatch calls for my local station.
I found in the RR database the talk group for the dispatch channel, and I found the talk groups for the channels the dispatcher assigns to the unit for the alarm.
Can someone with experience help me understand what information I need and how to decode it, please?
I have a Uniden BCD536HP, a SDS200 (once back from repair), a Unication G5 and an Airspy SDR.
I can see "from" IDs in the SDR-Trunk software and on the Unication display when someone is transmitting.
I thought I'm clever and started writing them down whenever a unit identified itself. But I figured out over time that these IDs change.
This morning Ladder 5 used 12345 as an ID and in the evening it's suddenly 54321....

What information do I need and how would you try to collect it?

Thanks for your help.

T

Are you looking for TGIDs as in Channel 59101 or are you looking for UIDs (Unit IDs) like Medic 51?

 

[ka3aaa]

the OP is going to need the uid's in order to do what he wants to do.

 

[CanesFan95]

Each radio on a trunking system has its own unique ID number which is called the radio ID, also known as the RID, UID, or unit ID. When a radio is keyed up, the radio transmits its radio ID on the input frequency of the control channel to tell the system what radio is keyed up (there's actually a little more to it than that). One ladder company will have several radios, maybe 1 mobile and 5 portables. And each one will have a different radio ID.

The talk group ID is something different. Every "channel" on a radio knob (Fire Dispatch, Fire Tac 1, Fire Tac 2, Fire Tac 3, etc.) has a talk group ID, which is just a plain dumb number. Multiple radios tuned to the same "channel" are all transmitting / receiving on the same talk group ID. But each radio has it's own unique radio ID separate and apart from whatever talk group they're on.

 

[AC7FD]

Thanks for all the answers.
I guess I have to study the manual of my scanner a little more in depth to make sure I'm logging the correct IDs.
My understanding based on the answers is, I need to collect the unit IDs and the alias for that ID to identify who is transmitting.
One more question. Do the stations all monitor the dispatch talk group 24/7 or does dispatch send a special ID to each station?
I monitored the dispatch talk group the last weeks and can hear all alarms. They always used the same talk group, it doesn't seem to be a private call. I find it hard to believe that they listen to all traffic all night.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[ka3aaa]

thats why its called dispatch and it runs 24/7/365 all day long every day, it doesn't broadcast traffic unless is required to. sop.

private calls are on other talkgroups.

 

[rrobinso84]

Many systems today use Computer Aided Dispatch, or CAD, which sends the dispatch info directly to the station(s). The common dispatch radio calls serve as a backup/ confirmation, I guess?

 

[MTS2000des]

Most modern centers use an IP based fire station alerting, such as Mach Alert. All stations have alert interface controllers that respond to either a CAD interface client or standalone application installed on a radio console. The actual alert packets may be over a WAN transport like a broadband connection or over IV&D (Integrated Voice and Data) session on the radio system itself. Our Mach Alert system is setup this way, primary connection is via WAN IP with IV&D as a failover.

There are no "tones" sent over the air, and everything is silent so there is nothing you'll hear on the air except dispatchers speaking the call text after the alerts were sent and acknowledged by the AIC which opens the PA amp at the stations alerted.

 

[dave3825]

I thought I'm clever and started writing them down whenever a unit identified itself. But I figured out over time that these IDs change.

What information do I need and how would you try to collect it?

I can see "from" IDs in the SDR-Trunk

Depending on how the system admins and management have things set up can, tagging radio id's can sometimes be tricky. Usually a radio id will only change daily when radios (portables) are signed in and out at shift starts and stops. Some users have radios assigned to them and some just take whatever is given to them. Mobile radios are generally much easier to log and assign an aliases to as those may only change when the radio needs to go to the shop. On our trunked system, mobiles (police and fire) do not change that much but the portables get tricky even though our officers are assigned portables. Unit 310 will have a mobile radio in the car and a portable. The mobile will stay the same but the officers assigned to that car 310 have portables assigned to them. If I tag a portable from who was assigned to 310 yesterday, and today he is and another car, his unit identifier will be specific to that car so if today he is driving car 320, and I tagged his portable as 310 (from yesterday) the tag of 310 will come up today when on his portable.

The easiest way I have found so far is using @Unitrunker2 (Unitrunker has by far the best logging capabilities) with Trunking Recorder. I can record multiple talk groups daily and pull up a history on any talk group or radio id and play them back to get an idea if a radio is a mobile or a portable and if the portables are assigned to the 2 or 3 daily users on that tour. We also have officers that float daily.

Since your using SDRtrunk, if you add Trunking Recorder to the mix, you can set those fire talk groups to record audio and save them for playback to help with identifying users. I keep 30 days of recordings.

 

[JethrowJohnson]

The fire department in my city doesn't normally use the radio to dispatch units unless PD gets the call and relays it to Fire on their channel, or the unit being dispatched isn't at the station. I'm not sure how it's set up, but I think when someone calls and it goes to the fire station's phone, the other stations can hear the actual call itself *I think*. But Devola has their radio set so they can hear WCF GLENDALE and MARIETTA FIRE 1, so they actually scan a few channels as well as their "Work" (also known as Simplex or Fireground) channels.

 

[CanesFan95]

Thanks for all the answers.
I guess I have to study the manual of my scanner a little more in depth to make sure I'm logging the correct IDs.
My understanding based on the answers is, I need to collect the unit IDs and the alias for that ID to identify who is transmitting.
One more question. Do the stations all monitor the dispatch talk group 24/7 or does dispatch send a special ID to each station?
I monitored the dispatch talk group the last weeks and can hear all alarms. They always used the same talk group, it doesn't seem to be a private call. I find it hard to believe that they listen to all traffic all night.

Thanks for all the help.

Are their dispatches preceded by any audible alert tones?

Logging radio IDs is difficult and time-consuming. And it's a moving target, because the stations sometimes run reserve apparatus with different radios that could cause you to mis-identify the unit. Portables get swapped around a lot. If multiple users key up at the same time (say, during a working fire or other busy incident), then you might get the wrong radio ID confused with a different unit.

 

[ofd8001]

If the dispatch center is complying with NFPA Standards for Public Safety Communications, any emergency dispatch is supposed to be preceded by a distinctive tone. That tone tells folks to listen because something important is about to be said. Whether it is this kind of tone or that kind of tone depends on the community.

I agree that correlating a Radio ID to a specific unit (police officer, fire apparatus, EMS ambulance) is a daunting task. Another NFPA requirement is that each responder on a scene should have his/her own radio. So fire apparatus could have 4-5 portable radios in addition to one or two mobile radios. Ambulances could have 2, possibly 3. And as noted in the above post, radios can be swapped around.

If you are committed to doing this, you have to spend a lot of time and do some logging and note taking.

 

[RaleighGuy]

Another NFPA requirement is that each responder on a scene should have his/her own radio. So fire apparatus could have 4-5 portable radios in addition to one or two mobile radios. Ambulances could have 2, possibly 3. And as noted in the above post, radios can be swapped around.

In larger departments where each member is issued their own radio, you now have even more, since there may be multiple shifts to include days off replacement first responders. It also becomes nearly impossible for EMS crews in my county as today's EMS 12 staff will be tomorrow's EMS 17, as crews change units almost daily.

 

[AC7FD]

Thanks for all the input.
I’m learning a lot thanks to this forum.
I noticed the change in radio ID’s. Sometimes they identify as “driver” when multiple radio ID’s response from the same vehicle, that’s helpful to track the vehicle IDs.
I followed the advice and set up the SDR software to record and that was a great tip. The radio ID is written into each file and displayed when replayed. That helps a lot to catch radio ID’s all day while at work.
I also found ProScan for my Uniden scanner and I just start learning about its capabilities, it looks very cool and promising.
I currently have the Airspy R2 SDR and one 536HP recording, my SDS200 is currently out for repair, I’ll split the recording between all 3 once it’s back.
It’s also interesting to see the difference in performance. I need to do more tests on the same antenna, so far the Airspy with TrunkSDR seems to be more reliable than the Scanner,….. until the software freezes…..which it does frequently. I’m writing a script to restart it once an hour until it’s more stable.
Thanks for all the information, it’s very appreciated and helpful for a beginner.

 

[dave3825]

so far the Airspy with TrunkSDR seems to be more reliable than the Scanner,….. until the software freezes

I’m writing a script to restart it once an hour until it’s more stable.

What version of sdrtrunk are you on?

 

[AC7FD]

0.5.0 works great but freezes with my Airspy R2 after a while (hours). I‘m currently testing older beta versions as some report they didn’t freeze.