HP-1 download

[suejives]

I live in Loudoun County,VA.When I put in my Zip and all other stuff and then down load I do not get any of the Project 25 info.. I am able to get Loudoun County by using the 3rd party ARC Patrol.I thought that when downloading I would get all the frequencies and talk groups. Maybe the database for the HP-1 needs updating.
Yes, I update my Home PatrolSentinel on a weekly basis.
Thanks in advance for your thought.

 

[ST-Bob]

According to the Radio Reference database:


Loudoun County

System Name: Loudoun County
Location: Ashburn, VA
County: Loudoun
System Type: Project 25 Phase II (TDMA/FDMA)
System Voice: APCO-25 Common Air Interface Exclusive
Last Updated: February 19, 2011, 2:40 pm (Updated General Trunked System Information)

Important Note

Some talkgroups on this system are using Project 25 Phase II TDMA modulation which cannot be monitored by any scanner. Please visit the RR Wiki Project 25 page for additional information.


So you may be running into the problem of Phase II being still in-flux. No scanner manufacturer will support it till it's been fully finalized and the specs published.

Another issue may be that you're just not within the best reception area for their signal. It appears the repeater site in your area is centered to the west of Leesburg and has an intended radius of coverage of 25 miles. You could try to pick up the control channel in the Quick Frequency Entry menu by entering 868.91250 or the alternate control channels of 868.05000 , 868.66250 or 868.77500 to see if it's a reception problem. If you get a decent signal on the control channel (buzzing noises) then the scanner should pick up the regular P-25 signals. However if they go encrypted or have switched to Phase-II P-25 then you're out of luck.

Also make sure you have the following Service Types enabled: Fire-Dispatch, Fire-Tac, Hospital, Law Dispatch, Law-Talk and Corrections.

 

[scannerfreak]

That statement isn't really correct. The GRE PSR 800 can receive the system just fine.

 

[ST-Bob]

I just posted a series of possible answers. I never said it was THE answer. However, that being said - I did some research. Here's what I know:

Uniden filters out a lot of stuff from their version of the database; especially things marked in the database as encrypted or in system types they don't support. Maybe they didn't include the systems you're trying to listen to.

Looking at HP Sentinel it appears there's no Loudoun County P25 systems listed there. This is probably due to the fact that it's listed in the RR database as "System Type: Project 25 Phase II (TDMA/FDMA)" which is not supported by ANY scanner fully since Phase II is still in transition. The fact that the GRE PSR-800 can receive it does not alter the fact that it's still not a finalized spec and Uniden chooses not to waste development time or dollars putting into their scanners at this time. This is therefor filtered out, as I said before, by Uniden and not loaded into the HP-1.

Even if you load the site(s) and system with it's talkgroups, I doubt the HP-1 will track them nor decode anything. If they were still using Phase-I all the time then maybe the HP-1 would get them but Uniden just follows what RR has in the database. RR says it's Phase-II then it's not in the HP-1.

 

[suejives]

Hp-1 doenload

Bob thanks for your input. I can go to Radio Reference and download all that I need. My question is why I can't get that information using HP-1.Right now I'm listening to Loudoun County VA no problem. It is just the reason why the frequency and talk groups are not downloaded.
Thanks Again

 

[ST-Bob]

I just TOLD you why. Because the RR database has it marked as Phase II P25 and that's not supported by the HP-1. It doesn't matter that it works (probably because it's not really Phase-II but is still, in fact Phase-1) - just that it's MARKED as Phase-II P25.

The automated filters must remove anything from the Uniden copy of the database if it's marked as either encrypted full-time, some unsupported modulation or voice type, or some trunking protocol which is not well-defined and publicized. It's only legal to make or sell scanners which can pick up transmissions readily available to the general public. Those which are purposely encrypted or use protocols which are intentionally kept private or use protected methods to try to hide them from the public cannot ever be legally scanned per US Federal law. So why tempt fate by importing them to a scanner manufacturer's database?

Now if you're actually tracking conversations and hearing voices then it's probably regular P-25 protocol and not Phase-II P25. Submit your findings to the RR database and it may get changed back to Phase-1. But make sure you verify it all before submitting.

 

[suejives]

Ok Bob.
Thanks so much. I might just do that.

 

[DonS]

The RRDB is correct*. The Loudoun County, VA system uses both FDMA ("P25 Phase I") and TDMA (currently Motorola's "X2 TDMA"). What form is used for any given traffic depends (at least partly) on what user radios are affiliated, and whether they're capable of "X2 TDMA" or not. When using a scanner that is not capable of "X2 TDMA", you'll hear just the FDMA traffic; the scanner won't be able to handle the TDMA traffic.

Long discussion in the VA forum.

The Loudoun system is similar to the Prince George's County, MD system, which has a bit of discussion here.


*Except where it says 'Some talkgroups on this system are using Project 25 Phase II TDMA modulation'. Motorola's X2 TDMA is not the same as Project 25 Phase II TDMA.

 

[ST-Bob]

We're not talking about exactly what kind of system but are discussing how the way it's marked in the RR database affects what Uniden downloads and then makes available to HP-1 users. It appears than Uniden does not upload any frequencies which are marked in the database as having any kind of Phase-II P-25 capability. This may be an error or it may be a lack of the appropriate data field in the raw RR database that Uniden loads. We'd have to ask Uniden.

 

[DonS]

I agree.

"the way it's marked in the RR database" is (subject to the exception noted above) correct. If any scanner firmware or PC software prevents loading the system because it might use an unmonitorable (by the target scanner) format some of the time, then that firmware or software is behaving incorrectly. (EDIT: One of my 3rd-party apps did, for a while, behave in such an incorrect manner - it wouldn't let one import the Loudoun system (or any like it) because it saw what it considered an "unmonitorable" system type. The users that complained about this behavior were, of course, correct, and the software was fixed.)

Note that this is akin to a system where some of the communications use encryption part-time - one wouldn't expect the entire system to be "disallowed" just because some traffic, some of the time, might be unmonitorable.