IC-PCR2500 & Apco P25

[W1PC]

In case it's not been previously confirmed, I can report that the Canadian version of the PCR2500 does not allow reception of APCO P25 above 800 mHz.

This is a real shame because the P25 reception on the PCR2500 is superb. I monitor my local FD which is P25 on UHF and the audio is clean and sharp. It is much better than the P25 reception on the Uniden 996T. There is no motorboating or acquistion delay on the Icom. I'm not knocking the 996T as it is a great radio, but the P25 reception on the Icom is much, much better.

Is there any possibility that Icom will issue a firmware upgrade to the PCR2500 to open up P25 reception above 800 mHz or is this a hardware limitation that can't be fixed through firmware?

 

[amham]

Hi, I'm waiting for my Canadian R2500 to arrive and have not purchased any modules as yet. (BTW, Gigaparts has the D-Star module on sale at $169 until 10/31). Thanks for the confirmation on the P25. I believe I read there is a new firmware release, the Icom Japan site I believe. Have you loaded this new firmware and has it opened up the P25 above 800mhz? AES is selling the R2500 (domestic US) with a free P25 module. I wonder whether that may have been a better deal than the Canadian version as they are priced the same in US/Cdn dollars. Any further updates/comments would be appreciated.
Regards
Mitch, w2msk

 

[N_Jay]

In case it's not been previously confirmed, I can report that the Canadian version of the PCR2500 does not allow reception of APCO P25 above 800 mHz.

This is a real shame because the P25 reception on the PCR2500 is superb. I monitor my local FD which is P25 on UHF and the audio is clean and sharp. It is much better than the P25 reception on the Uniden 996T. There is no motorboating or acquistion delay on the Icom. I'm not knocking the 996T as it is a great radio, but the P25 reception on the Icom is much, much better.

Is there any possibility that Icom will issue a firmware upgrade to the PCR2500 to open up P25 reception above 800 mHz or is this a hardware limitation that can't be fixed through firmware?

Above 800 MHz or above the 800 MHz band?

 

[W1PC]

Above 800 MHz or above the 800 MHz band?

P25 reception can not be enabled for any frequency greater than 799.99 mHz.

 

[N_Jay]

P25 reception can not be enabled for any frequency greater than 799.99 mHz.

Weird??

Bad product concept/design.

 

[vince48]

Yes, I have a PCR2500 and the UT122 P25 module stops at 760Mhz. I cannot understand Icom's total lapse in designing any radio for P25 decode not to cover the entire 800 PS band!
I really hope that this "update" is real and is available soon! The PCR2500 is a great radio/scanner, for the life of me, I just cannot understand Icom's marketing.

 

[Declared_Hostile]

Is that a restriction in the software or firmware or is it something hardware related that is built into the radio or APCO 25 module itself? Has anyone been able to do enough testing to determine that? You're right about Icom's marketing and design team. That was an astoundingly bad move from both an engineering and marketing standpoint. Just awful.

 

[KC1UA]

When I was considering buying one from the gentleman in China that was selling the unblocked version with P25 capability, he and I spoke several times regarding this problem. He was unaware of the issue until Vince made him so. As I recall he had the ability to communicate with Icom Japan directly. He inquired of them, and sent me the response, in which Icom Japan basically stated that they had "no idea" that there was any P25 activity in the US 800 MHz band.

That's either incredibly poor research, or hogwash....or both! Call me crazy, but I would think that they would inquire of Icom America prior to just building it. Hopefully it is a firmware issue. I own the R2500 Japanese version that does not have P25 capability, and I absolutely love the radio, enough that I took advantage of the above AES deal and bought a PCR2500. Most of my DX'ing P25 targets are in the VHF and UHF range.

I'm not a very technical person, but I would think that the UT-122 P25 decoder would not care what frequency a P25 signal was on when it came time to decode it. Why would it care if it was on 800 MHz as opposed to 470 MHz? Obviously the AOR decoders, both ARD25 and the internal decoder for the AR8600 don't care, and work at all frequencies as obviously the Uniden and GRE scanners do as well. I would hope this would lend to this simply being an "omission" that could be corrected via a firmware update.

Aside from this little bugaboo these are incredibly capable little radios that are very simple to operate from the remote head as well as the software, and offer great performance. Hopefully Icom can get the issue squared away for the benefit of all.

 

[W1PC]

I've emailed Icom to see if there is a firmware upgrade in the works and will share their response with the group once I have it.

 

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

On another thread a person from Italy mapped out the configuration jumpers and I believe in one configuration P25 was active over 800 MHz.
http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40353&page=13

The R2500 software on the PC reads the radio configuration and uses it to configure the features of the software's control panel.

Now that we have people with 2500 P25 capability and P25 activity on 800 MHz it is time to try the modification that looks like it eliminates the 800 MHz limit.

73 Eric

 

[W1PC]

Update based on my communications with Icom America. The response to my email was that they blocked P25 above 800 mHz because of cell frequencies. The tech support guy who responded to my email said he was not aware of any firmware upgrades on the horizon that would deal with the problem.

Obviously, this is a poor response, so I called the guy today and spoke to him in person. I pointed out that blocking P25 and cell frequencies are two separate issues. This didn't produce any reaction other than to say that "that's the way it is". He reiterated that he was not aware of any firmware upgrades planned and didn't seem to care that the literature for the radio indicated P25 reception (with the UT122) above 800 mHz.

It would seem, therefore, that the only possible way to open up P25 is to remove the diode mentioned in other posts.

Has anyone else removed the diode on a US or Canadian version and is able to confirm that this actually works? I know nravid has done it on the Italian version but it would be comforting to know that it works on other versions before I forge ahead.

 

[DaveIN]

Hmmm.... sell it in the USA and expect the user to buy the P25 module to use in any band but 800MHz. What the heck are they thinking! Sounds like the reason it took so long to get FCC approval was to take care of the cell image problem. They must of just removed the band to get it to pass. So now they have P25 voice decoders available and nothing to use it on. Good luck with that Icom!

 

[W1PC]

Well, I took a chance and removed the diode that nravid identified and I've got P25 in the 800 mHz band.

This appears to be the solution to having P25 reception above 760 Mhz.

I can now fully enjoy this great radio.

 

[KC1UA]

That's great news, John. Thanks for being the guinea pig. I wasn't convinced that he had P25 signal to prove that he had actual reception. You've proven it works for us. How nightmarish was this maneuver?

 

[W1PC]

How nightmarish was this maneuver?

The sad thing is that it shouldn't have been such a nightmare. If only more manufacturers would take a lesson of how valuable it is to have someone who listens, and reacts, to the end users like Paul Obitz does at Uniden, we'd all be better off

 

[Turbo68]

Hi There Everybody,I have the ICOM-R2500 with the UT-122 APCO-25 Digital Board and I wreckin it works great because I did a Comparision to other Digital Scanners such as the UNIDEN-396 and the 996.

Regards Lino.

 

[vince48]

John W1PC
How tough was it to remove the diodes? Can you tell us step by step?

vince48

 

[W1PC]

It really isn't difficult, it just takes a small (really small!!) soldering iron and a bit of patience. A good magnifying glass was also helpful for my tired eyes.

See the images in this thread: http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40353&page=13

The only diode to remove is the second one from the left in the bottom row (looking at the radio with the front towards you).

That's all there is to it. Naturally, this probably voids your warranty and I take no responsibility for anyone trying it. I just know that it worked in my case.

 

[Declared_Hostile]

It would be interesting to see if there are any performance issues after diode removal especially in regards to cell images.

In any event that is just some damn sloppy engineering. One from the standpoint of susceptibility of images from cellphones and two from the ham fisted solution of slapping a diode in and screwing the whole P 25 board. Icom is capable of better of much better design that that.

 

[DaveIN]

Lets see if Icom does this diode switch with the 9500?