Is CHP Going P25 and/or Encrypted?

[Remington12G]

Sorry to butt in, but that photo shows a Kenwood/EFJ Viking VM7000 setup

Thanks for clarifying, hard to tell from the photos.

 

[HappilyRetired]

We're laughing at your attitude, not your questions. I have no problem helping someone who genuinely wants to learn, but you need to drop the attitude and stop getting defensive when people who have more experience in behind the scenes public safety communications comment on your thread. Great job using ULS! You've outed me!

It stops here John.

 

[mmckenna]

Sorry to butt in, but that photo shows a Kenwood/EFJ Viking VM7000 setup, not the Kenwood NX series. The KCH-20 enhanced control head is capable of controlling four separate decks. That series is only capable of P25 digital modulation, not NXDN or DMR. The low band deck is only capable of analog.

VM7630 - Low band deck
VM7730 - VHF deck
VM7830 - UHF deck
VM7930 - 700/800 deck

We concur. CHP has announced it as a "Kenwood" radio. We know Kenwood <-> EFJ.

We're not sure if they are running some sort of custom firmware to make this do other things. EF Johnson is the likely platform for this, but it's all essentially the same RF decks with different firmware.

Last I looked, those decks would support SmartZone with the EFJohnson firmware in them. EF Johnson has the license from Motorola to use SZ, Kenwood does not. Makes more sense for CHP to have SmartZone than NXDN or DMR at this point.

I'm willing to bet a cup of coffee that CHP is running some custom firmware in this setup that isn't going to translate well into stock NX-5K's or VM7###

 

[GTR8000]

I've made it abundantly clear that I am a new user.

And yet in several of your posts in this thread, you have made declarative statements/assumptions that were factually incorrect, and were refuted by experienced, knowledgeable members. So, either you're a new user who is here to learn, or you already have all the answers...both cannot be true.

 

[iscanvnc2]

Question: What becomes of 154.905 since vacated by extenders?

 

[HappilyRetired]

Question: What becomes of 154.905 since vacated by extenders?

According to the ULS it is still active until 2023 under the state of California. I read earlier today that that was the extender frequency. I do know that in certain parts of California it is still in use.

 

[mmckenna]

Question: What becomes of 154.905 since vacated by extenders?

Getting statewide VHF allocations, even for one simplex channel, is extremely difficult. CHP/State will never give it up. No doubt it'll get rolled into some plan somewhere.

 

[SirJ]

In Ventura county I can listen to mobile units using 700mhz p25. Now it's not very often, but they do have it and it's in the clear, becides that 42.4mhz FM is the go to frequency.

 

[KK6ZTE]

In Ventura county I can listen to mobile units using 700mhz p25. Now it's not very often, but they do have it and it's in the clear, becides that 42.4mhz FM is the go to frequency.

On the extender frequencies?

 

[SirJ]

On the extender frequencies?

Yes

 

[Mojaveflyer]

For the original posting person.... I use a 6 meter ham antenna cut down to about 42 MHz (made using the cutting chart) that came with the antenna. It has a "NMO" mount that is compatible with many different types of mounting bases; hole mount or magnetic base. I live in Colorado but when I visit California I always this antenna with good results. Good luck!

 

[HappilyRetired]

For the original posting person.... I use a 6 meter ham antenna cut down to about 42 MHz (made using the cutting chart) that came with the antenna. It has a "NMO" mount that is compatible with many different types of mounting bases; hole mount or magnetic base. I live in Colorado but when I visit California I always this antenna with good results. Good luck!

Thank you. I have a 10 ft tall half wave collinear vertical with an N connector. I can now hear CHP mobiles talking car to car on the output. I can hear quite a few areas as well. I can hear CHP up in the San Bernardino Mountains quite well. My wife has given up on trying to control my new hobby. LOL. Now that I have my ham radio license and upgraded to General I have a few more surprises for her. If she throws me out I may have to come live with you in Colorado. LOL.

 

[es93546]

For the original posting person.... I use a 6 meter ham antenna cut down to about 42 MHz (made using the cutting chart) that came with the antenna. It has a "NMO" mount that is compatible with many different types of mounting bases; hole mount or magnetic base. I live in Colorado but when I visit California I always this antenna with good results. Good luck!

How do you do that, 6 meter ham is at 50-54 Mhz's and the CHP is about 39-45 MHz's. The 6 meter antenna will already be shorter than the CHP antenna, so how to you "cut down to 42 MHz." Or, am I missing something here?

 

[mmckenna]

Or, am I missing something here?

The Larsen low band whips come long. You cut the whip to the frequency you want to listen to. They don't ship them pre-cut to your frequency.

 

[es93546]

The Larsen low band whips come long. You cut the whip to the frequency you want to listen to. They don't ship them pre-cut to your frequency.

I know that, he specifically said he takes a a 6 meter ham antenna and cuts it down to 42 MHz's. I inferred that the 6 meter ham antenna is already cut to that higher frequency range.

 

[mmckenna]

Unlikely this applies to many here, but if you are a member of NAPCO, the monthly chapter meeting on December 10th will include:

The Commercial presentation will be co-sponsored by Kenwood Viking and Pyramid Communications. In addition to presenting standard products, they will give an overview of the New CHP vehicle system that was a collaborative effort between the two companies.​

"collaborative effort" likely means that they are using a Pyramid mobile repeater for the link to the handpacks. That would explain the "5 radios" thing we talked about above.

I'm triple booked for meetings on the 10th, but I'm going to try to reschedule them so I can attend this. I'll pass on what I hear.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

SNIP

While P25 can absolutely be used on Low Band, how it would respond to a high noise floor and possible skip interference would need to be looked at.

I think impulse noise will be quite destructive. Motorola had a circuit called an Extender", (not the same as the vehicular repeater "extender" a GE label for their VRS). The Motorola "Extender" is a noise blanker that punches holes in the audio during lightning or electrical arcing impulses. Do the same to P25 and you will lose a bunch of frames of audio. Dont use an extender and you will still lose frame or two of P25 audio.

Motorola offered Securenet DES-XL in low band Syntor X 9000 radios. I don't know how widely that was accepted. The military used digital encryption in the low bands.

I think if CHP ever announces they are going to any form of encryption it would be years before such a system is carried out.

Back in about 1983 I was driving in my car in Indiana with a Bearcat 210 scanner and received CHP transmissions loud and clear.

 

[mmckenna]

I think impulse noise will be quite destructive. Motorola had a circuit called an Extender", (not the same as the vehicular repeater "extender" a GE label for their VRS). The Motorola "Extender" is a noise blanker that punches holes in the audio during lightning or electrical arcing impulses. Do the same to P25 and you will lose a bunch of frames of audio. Dont use an extender and you will still lose frame or two of P25 audio.

Motorola offered Securenet DES-XL in low band Syntor X 9000 radios. I don't know how widely that was accepted. The military used digital encryption in the low bands.

I think if CHP ever announces they are going to any form of encryption it would be years before such a system is carried out.

Back in about 1983 I was driving in my car in Indiana with a Bearcat 210 scanner and received CHP transmissions loud and clear.

Yeah, I agree, it would be problematic.

As for CHP, the low band system works great, and why the DOT/CalTrans moved off of it is beyond me. CalTrans switched to 800MHz and has a crap-ton of 800MHz sites along the highways to get the coverage they want.

State of California is building out a statewide 700MHz trunked system that CHP will have some talkgroups on. I suspect that's where they'll go for encryption. Coverage of that system will never match low band, but it will cover most of the populated areas.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Yeah, I agree, it would be problematic.

As for CHP, the low band system works great, and why the DOT/CalTrans moved off of it is beyond me. CalTrans switched to 800MHz and has a crap-ton of 800MHz sites along the highways to get the coverage they want.

State of California is building out a statewide 700MHz trunked system that CHP will have some talkgroups on. I suspect that's where they'll go for encryption. Coverage of that system will never match low band, but it will cover most of the populated areas.

There is this on going myth that 700/800 MHz P25 along with the FirstNet, will serve the entire country. They are going to have to keep minting money because these systems are (ahem planned)/ "obsolete" within 5 years of purchase. Look at the State of Florida SLERS. Now Motorola is pushing "APX NEXT and Broadband". Sounds like LMR is on its way down the tubes.

If I were frequency Czar at FCC, I would push for refarming the high band VHF band to create proper duplex pairs and put the repeater inputs in a protected area of the band. Then use VHF to supplement these statewide systems.

But what do i know, I am just some crazy guy who just bought a 30+ year old LB Syntor X9000 for Christmas!

 

[mmckenna]

If I were frequency Czar at FCC, I would push for refarming the high band VHF band to create proper duplex pairs and put the repeater inputs in a protected area of the band. Then use VHF to supplement these statewide systems.

I agree.
And, take all the agencies that are on the 700MHz P25 systems and force them to justify hanging on to all the VHF pairs. I tried to get a couple of VHF pairs at work earlier this year and there are zero in our area. That's B.S.

But what do i know, I am just some crazy guy who just bought a 30+ year old LB Syntor X9000 for Christmas!

Were those the ones you could put on 10 meters and 6 meters at the same time?
I had a 100 watt VHF Syntor X about 15-20 years ago. Had the RF deck mounted up in the rafters of the garage and the control head in the office. I'd put the PIEXX module in the Syntor so I could program it with a PC, and retuned it down to 2 meters. Worked really well. Lost interest in it and sold it a few years later.