The price was too enticing for a FPP P25 capable VHF portable, so I ordered one from eBay. My understanding is that they use XTS batteries, which I have plenty of, and are pretty easy to program with FPP. Is there anything I should be aware of about these radios? I am pretty fluent in programming for Motorola radios and have experience in Motorola's P25 conventional modes, so would I be correct in guessing that aside from a few nuances, this shouldn't be too difficult to understand?
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Just bought a Datron Gaurdian...
- Thread starter mainegrw
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The software is just rebranded Thales T25 software. The cable is a simple straight through 3 pin RS232 but the connector is unobtanium. I made my own from some plexiglass and pogo pins. They have RFI issues with certain batteries so OEM XTS batteries are your best bet. They work well and the FPP features are really nice and simple.
MTS2000des
5B2_BEE00 Czar
The RFI issues with the Guardian is due to the IMPRES chip making trash. Just cover up the center battery pin with tape and it should resolve the issue.
There is an RFI issue of RF getting into the battery and causing the radio to draw excessive current on transmit and other problems. The OEM batteries had some copper foil shielding around the cells to prevent this and Motorola brand batteries do not have the shielding.
With regards to this, can I assume that this is a TX only issue? So if I were to RX only it should be fine, yes? Also, is this a blanket problem with all types of batteries? I'm curious if the Lithium batteries are less susceptible than NiMH or NiCD. If Motorola batteries are not good with these radios, how about EF Johnson batteries, or any of the off brand packs? I assume the point was make these radios interoperable with Motorola and other government radios and parts, so really this seems like a bad design in that regard. If Motorola doesn't have this issue with their radios, how did they solve it?
I would also like to know what happens in an excessive current draw situation. Does the radio shut down, does it just eat through battery life faster?
This is a TX only problem and the OEM Datron batteries had extra shielding to address it. No other battery I know of has the specific shielding that is needed with the Datron Guardian P25 VHF hand held.
I can't remember if the radio shuts down or not and before I was told about the problem I kind of remember not being able to contact people and the radio heated up a lot and battery life sucked on transmit. The radio seemed to work fine clip leaded to a power supply or operated with an external antenna. There are a few others on RR who still have these radios and can probably give a more in depth explanation.
I can't remember if the radio shuts down or not and before I was told about the problem I kind of remember not being able to contact people and the radio heated up a lot and battery life sucked on transmit. The radio seemed to work fine clip leaded to a power supply or operated with an external antenna. There are a few others on RR who still have these radios and can probably give a more in depth explanation.
So update: The radio arrived today, and initially I was bummed because it wouldn't power up. Turns out the battery that came with it was dead, and the Lithium Ion battery I pulled off my XTS 3000 has contacts a little too recessed for the pins on this radio. I tweaked them with a small screwdriver, and we were in business.
Programming is really easy, I popped in a local amateur repeater and had a short call with another local ham operator. I got a good signal report, and had no issues whatsoever. Granted, the contact and transmit time was fairly short, but I didn't experience any issue with excessive current draw at all which to me suggests that maybe my supposition about different battery types being more affected than others might be true. The pack I have is an aftermarket dumb (not Impres capable) Li-ion pack. How long does one have to transmit to see the effects of RF induced current draw? I assumed it would be nearly instant, or fairly quickly.
One weird thing I found though, and hoping someone knows the answer: The radio turns on with a twist of the knob, but won't power down when twisted back, instead it goes to mute mode. How does one actually turn it off aside from pulling the battery?
Programming is really easy, I popped in a local amateur repeater and had a short call with another local ham operator. I got a good signal report, and had no issues whatsoever. Granted, the contact and transmit time was fairly short, but I didn't experience any issue with excessive current draw at all which to me suggests that maybe my supposition about different battery types being more affected than others might be true. The pack I have is an aftermarket dumb (not Impres capable) Li-ion pack. How long does one have to transmit to see the effects of RF induced current draw? I assumed it would be nearly instant, or fairly quickly.
One weird thing I found though, and hoping someone knows the answer: The radio turns on with a twist of the knob, but won't power down when twisted back, instead it goes to mute mode. How does one actually turn it off aside from pulling the battery?
chrismol1
P25 TruCking!
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Mute mode was one turn short of power off when I had mine. strange
They're decent radios. Built good for a 2000s radio, built a few years after the Racal 25 came out. They made a mobile version too. They supposedly made the Guardian 2 I wanted buy one for a few years but Ive never seen one. certainly the xts5000 has less FPP features than the datron but nicely built, felt solid. If I had to get one I'd do it again if I didnt have an xts5000 in the drawer already. I didnt find much use out of the extra FPP menus considering I have the software available for the 5000, but I'd see how one would want all of it in the field on a quick deployment
They're decent radios. Built good for a 2000s radio, built a few years after the Racal 25 came out. They made a mobile version too. They supposedly made the Guardian 2 I wanted buy one for a few years but Ive never seen one. certainly the xts5000 has less FPP features than the datron but nicely built, felt solid. If I had to get one I'd do it again if I didnt have an xts5000 in the drawer already. I didnt find much use out of the extra FPP menus considering I have the software available for the 5000, but I'd see how one would want all of it in the field on a quick deployment
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So I suspect the volume/power knob might be faulty, which is ok, all other positions work just not the off position, unless there's a system parameter that exists in the programming software that affects it. Without a cable I'll never know. Easy enough to power off by just pulling the battery off. Strangely enough though, I snapped the battery back on last night and left it standing on my desk in the off position, however this morning when I went to turn it on, the battery was completely drained out. I guess I can't leave a battery on it then. I suspect that the power/volume knob is a digital encoder rather than an audio taper with an off position, so I surmise in this case that it doesn't shut all the way off, and parts of the unit are still drawing power even if the head end is turned off.
As an experiment, I compared performance with the aftermarket Li-ion battery pack I was using with it last night with a NiMH pack I have, made by Rayovac I think for the EF Johnson 5100 specifically, though it usually resides on my XTS5000. I tired keying a local ham repeater, and the performance difference was night and day. With the NiMH pack, the moment I push the TX button, the radio shuts off and resets. I assume this is the standard problem with these radios and non-shielded batteries?
Edit: Also, am I correct in assuming that I cannot remap the buttons or the A-B-C switch functionality without a program cable and software? I can't find a spot in the FPP for modifying those things.
It continues to get a little weirder... I popped the Li-ion battery on just a little while ago, after having charged it while at work. What's interesting is that the power off on the volume/power knob is now working. I had noticed something similar with my NiMH battery as well, where I could turn it off, but not back on again. I think both batteries must have been close to dead, they have been off the charger on my XTS 3000 and XTS 5000 for a few months, having seen very light sporadic use in that time. Must have had just enough juice to power the radio up, but not enough to do much else.
There is no programming for the on-off function, the volume control is also a switch that cuts power in the off position and the radio should turn off and draw no current when turned off. The problem with the radio resetting when keyed is typical for the battery RF problem and if you take the antenna off and use a 50 ohm load the radio should transmit fine. That will show its RF getting back into the radio via the battery problem and causing excessive current draw.
These radios are good performers and a bargain at $100 or less these days. Just like the Racal/Thales T25 radios on Ebay that show up for $49 here and there, excellent radios except for the batteries that cost $106 each and are sometimes out of stock. I have five Thales T25s that cost me between $49 and $60 each, all with P25, DES and working fine.
These radios are good performers and a bargain at $100 or less these days. Just like the Racal/Thales T25 radios on Ebay that show up for $49 here and there, excellent radios except for the batteries that cost $106 each and are sometimes out of stock. I have five Thales T25s that cost me between $49 and $60 each, all with P25, DES and working fine.
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