Kenwood NXDN Radio: 'Switching' the Unit ID

[tweiss3]

Both.

I know for sure on the NX3300 (D3N) and NX5000 (D1N) it is possible with multiple personalities.

As @kd4efm said before, the NX300 can have 4 systems. The issue, and question I asked, is how does KPG111D handle the re-use of NXDN system keys. 111D requires a system key, and considering the race team would have the same system each driver would be using, I wonder if it is as simple as making a second "system" in 111D and using the same key, or do you copy the key and need to import it 4 times, one for each system, in order for additional "systems" to show up.

 

[racingfan360]

Ok thanks. I think there is a strong possibility the car uses an NX3300. The reason I was confused about the multiple systems on the NX300 comment is because I know the setup is conventional and not trunked.

 

[mmckenna]

How confident are you that they are not using portable radios, one for each driver?

Reason I ask:
-Not sure what the benefit would be of having a different ID for the same car/different driver. But then again, I'm not into racing and am probably missing something very basic.
-It would be really easy to forget to swap ID's.
-On a simplex channel for a small race team, there's little benefit for having separate ID's.
-As you can see from above, it's a pain in the butt.
-Complex programming for a small race team.

 

[racingfan360]

@mmckenna I'm 100% sure they are not physically swapping the radio out at each pit stop. Believe me, I've monitored 1000's of race team setups - globally - for many years and never come across this before, hence why I asked. And yes, it is a right pain in the butt, which is why I was even more curious. I cannot envisage that from the drivers POV it could be any more complicated for them than a simple flick of the Transponder Driver ID Switch at each stop. I assume this must then trigger the switch of NXDN UID on the radio in this setup.

 

[mmckenna]

@mmckenna I'm 100% sure they are not physically swapping the radio out at each pit stop. Believe me, I've monitored 1000's of race team setups - globally - for many years and never come across this before, hence why I asked. And yes, it is a right pain in the butt, which is why I was even more curious. I cannot envisage that from the drivers POV it could be any more complicated for them than a simple flick of the Transponder Driver ID Switch at each stop. I assume this must then trigger the switch of NXDN UID on the radio in this setup.

OK. Seems like an odd setup.
I get the reason for changing the transponder, but not for changing the radio ID. But there's probably a ton of stuff I don't understand about racing.

I run a lot of NX-3400's on my trunked system, so only one ID needed. I know it'll do multiple systems/ID's. Seems like changing the radio ID is an unnecessary complexity, but maybe there is a really good reason.
While radio ID's are nice, using the NXDN ID alias to show actual names is much more useful in most applications.

 

[ramal121]

Anyone have an NX3300 that could check if multiple UIDs can be added....as Echo4Thirty points out I don't think this is possible to swap on an nx300 in conventional without reprogramming.

You can have multiple conventional systems in a NX3300 and assign a unique UID to each system. This is done in ID management by unchecking the global ID boxes. Then you can set up how they are selected in the Zone/Channel Assignment. Easy.

 

[BMDaug]

You can have multiple conventional systems in a NX3300 and assign a unique UID to each system. This is done in ID management by unchecking the global ID boxes. Then you can set up how they are selected in the Zone/Channel Assignment. Easy.

Geez I’m SO glad to hear you say this! I’m following this thread not knowing much about NXDN and thinking “why would they ever design this like this”… Thanks!

-B

 

[racingfan360]

I am highly confident (but will need to get 100% proof in the coming weeks) they run NXDN OTA Alias ID on their radios, and that will likely relate to the reason for wanting to swap the UIDs between drivers. The regulations state they have to run right Driver ID for the transponder, so linking this same switch to the radio ID would help confirm the transponder switch was in the right position.

Thanks for confirming ramal121: I only have experience with the KPG111 software and on NXx00's. Realistically this UID swap setup would have to be simple to achieve, and this now looks palusible on the NX3300 (and I guess other newer models).

 

[mmckenna]

so linking this same switch to the radio ID would help confirm the transponder switch was in the right position.

That makes sense, sort of.

The 14 pin interface on the side of the radio has a "programmable function key input" on pin 8, but it is not as simple as an on/off contact.
There's no option I can see that would let the portable radio interface pin be controlled by something else.
There are some internal contacts that would allow this, but that would require some fancy interfaces to the radio internals.

Seems overly complex.

 

[ramal121]

Remotely switching channels is easy in a mobile flavor radio using inputs on the accessory connector. A diode matrix connected to each external switch position would accomplish this.

Unless I'm mistaken, on a portable radio (other than knobs and buttons) the only way to remotely change channels is through the com port on the universal connector sending serial commands. This would be a little involved to do this. Any Raspberry Pi gurus out there?

If the are indeed just using UIDs to identify a driver I guess that works, but as mentioned Kenwood NXDN supports over the air ID alias and would make a more relevant display to the receive radio. However not all NXDN support this (looking at you Mr. Icom).

 

[ramal121]

And after looking back over all the thread again, there are references to trunking systems, system keys, analog signaling and such. The OP is talking about a CONVENTIONAL NXDN system. Maybe y'all can focus your laser beams a little finer?

 

[wd8chl]

Idk, but could they be using individual calls? In the " sel-call on PTT" field, you can set that to "individual call", define a bunch of individual ID in the list, and set each channel to a different ID...each transmission would be an individual unit-to-unit call, and only those two units would hear it. Listening on a scanner could hear it as well, since some have the capability of hearing I-calls.
Just a thought...

 

[racingfan360]

@wd8chl Thanks for the thoughts but it's another of those possibilities to discount. I know from DSD+ they were using Group calls not Individual calls. In any case, with the situation you describe, the 'called unit' UID would change with the channel change, but the 'caller unit' UID would stay the same. In this case the car radio making the call to pits swapped UID when the new driver was installed each time.

 

[natedawg1604]

Is there any way for NX-3000 or 5000 radios to monitor Individual calls from other radios? Like setting up a list of Radio ID's to monitor?

 

[mmckenna]

Is there any way for NX-3000 or 5000 radios to monitor Individual calls from other radios? Like setting up a list of Radio ID's to monitor?

Depends on what kind of system it is.
If it's an NXDN trunked system, the individual call is set up between the two radios. A scanner would hear something, another radio on the trunked system would not.

 

[EWC_BDN]

No way it's just two portable radios mounted in the car and the drivers plug their headset in to a different one? To me that seems more likely to me somehow.

 

[a417]

No way it's just two portable radios mounted in the car and the drivers plug their headset in to a different one? To me that seems more likely to me somehow.

please...just don't.

race cars would not want any extra weight, even an extra RF deck and wiring would be trading weight for car balance and speed.

 

[racingfan360]

There was definitely only one portable radio in the car, it didn't get swapped at the Pitstop (I've watched the footage). It's a nexedge conventional setup. NX3300 mounted in the car.

 

[bytehog]

I don't know much about auto racing, but;

Depending on the radio model used, both KPG-D1N and KPG-D3N will let you program in multiple systems, each with their own frequency tables (if trunking), personality lists (channels), etc.

You could have a mix of NXDN Conventional, and NXDN Trunking systems. Each one can either use a global UID, or a unique one that's set per system. Each system (even if they are identical), could have identical channels programmed, but a unique UID/Alias, so moving from zone to zone on the radio, you could keep the same channel layout, but different TX aliases. That way anyone receiving can quickly tell who's talking at a glance of the display. Analog systems can do the same thing, but with Fleetsync or MDC1200.

Just a thought anyway...