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Kenwood TK-7180H install in 2016 Ford F-150

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bigRoN18

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For the most part, this is more a musing but I do have a question at the end. I am on the Communications Unit of the Placer County Sheriff's Search and Rescue and I'm the one that has single-handedly (for SAR) been implementing a system where all of our radios are Kenwoods using FleetSync and GPS for tracking searchers in the field. Previously, I had a Kenwood TK-7360H with an internally installed GPS unit, "installed" in my 2013 Ford Explorer (power cable was only permanent fixture in install) and used a magnetic mount NMO base and a magnetic mount GPS antenna. I recently traded in my Explorer for a 2016 Ford F-150 (XLT FX4 5.0 V8) so I could pull a new travel trailer. I wanted to put a permanent installation in my new F150, but no space for my TK-7360. I decided to upgrade my mobile radio to a TK-7180 and purchase the KRK-10 head separation unit, allowing me to install the radio and head unit in two different locations. I purchased another Garmin 15Xl-W GPS unit and installed it in the radio. I then programmed the radio, following all the steps provided for making GPS to work. I then set up the KRK-10 separation unit and tried testing it "on the bench" before installing it in my truck. Everything appeared to work fine except I got no audio out of the radio. I checked, rechecked, triple-checked, etc... over a period of several weeks, trying to figure out what I could have done to have messed things up. Not only this, but I couldn't get a GPS signal.

Both of these issues were driving me nuts, as I went over them many times with no success. I finally made an appointment with an authorized Kenwood dealer I've done business with before. He did one thing about the radio separation unit I had not done, he had a schematic that identified each pin on the separation cable and found on one end of the cable, while all the wires physically looked fine, one wire was not completely seated in the connector. This was thankfully a relatively easy fix. The next issue was with the GPS unit not reporting data. He checked my programming and did not see any flaws. On this particular radio, there are two COM ports you can install GPS to... I had connected it to COM 2. The tech tried connecting it to COM 1, but still could not get any GPS data. On a whim, he had the programming from Nevada County SAR radios, which uses the same software we use in Placer County for tracking searchers (actually, we use their software; the software was created by one of their team members). The radio immediately recognized the GPS unit. I have not yet figured out what I had set wrong, but it is all working now.

OK, now that everything is working correctly, I figured I'd pay for the tech to install the radio. I knew that he had much more experience in installing than I, so I knew he could do it neater and faster than I could, and I was there. I had him install the head unit in the alcove where the dash meets the center console, where the 12V accessory power and USB hub are located. I opted out of having it screwed into the bracket, as I think that would make it difficult to plug or unplug items into outlets in that compartment. The nice thing with this location is there is a door that hides it all.

OpenClose4000.jpg

My plan has been to purchase a Pulse Larsen NMOHFGPS antenna base, but have not done so yet. As I don't have it yet, I didn't want him to put the hole in the roof quite yet and I planned on using my magnetic mount for the time being until I finally get the antenna base. If anyone has familiarity with the details of a 2016 Ford F150, you will probably already see where this is going... I learned. Pretty much, the entire body, including roof, is all aluminum and magnets do not stick. One of the reasons I've held off buying the mount is spousal approval... she is hesitant to allow me to poke holes into the truck. From what I hear, this actually involves two holes... a standard hole you would make for a normal NMO mount plus a hole with a pin or bolt that keeps the unit from rotating on the roof. To solve the temporary issue, I've done something quite hokey... I went to Home Depot and got a piece of plate steel and mounted it to the side top rail of the pickup bed. I used a couple of C-clamps to secure it.

IMG_1278.png

Now for my question, does anyone have any better ideas for my antenna situation, before I order the PulseLarsen NMOHFGPS antenna mount?
 

K7MFC

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I agree with AI7PM - if this radio is a required tool for a search and rescue team, why would spousal approval of antenna installation even be a consideration?
 

bigRoN18

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I agree with AI7PM - if this radio is a required tool for a search and rescue team, why would spousal approval of antenna installation even be a consideration?

My wife is interested in the resale value of the truck, as it is a family vehicle, but will likely upgrade in about 5ish years. My wife also doesn't quite "get" volunteer work. I have to break things in with her slowly, over a period of time. We've had this truck for about two months now. I'm actually hoping she DOESN'T like my temporary fix, so she can see how the proper fix is important.
 

cmjonesinc

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If you're not wanting to drill the roof are you opposed to a fender mount nmo? Not the drilling the roof is bad. If done correctly you should never have problems, and if you sell the vehicle you can get a plug for it. It's not going to hurt resale value and being on a truck no one will likely ever even notice it.

An edit after seeing your response right about mine: As someone who has worked in the car business and a dealership for some time, no one is going to bat an eye at a properly capped nmo on a trade in. I have never once heard any salesman complain about scratches, dents, or anything like that unless they were very extreme. If someone starts splitting hairs about an nmo mount and resale value then they aren't wanting to sell you a new vehicle. A large amount of trade ins go straight to auction anyway so no one cares too much.
 

bigRoN18

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If you're not wanting to drill the roof are you opposed to a fender mount nmo? Not the drilling the roof is bad. If done correctly you should never have problems, and if you sell the vehicle you can get a plug for it. It's not going to hurt resale value and being on a truck no one will likely ever even notice it.

Believe me, I KNOW that I need to have the hole drilled. My main question though is alternate ideas for both GPS and VHF antenna combo. The PulseLarsen NMOHFGPS antenna is just the only option I've seen... it appears I can buy one for around $80. I just want to make sure there is not a better GPS/VHF capable combo before the purchase. I saw that PulseLarsen makes another antenna called the "GPSCW1502" which is a dedicated VHF antenna with GPS but I've not seen any vendors selling it. I think I prefer the one with an NMO on it, as it would allow me to change out antennas if I feel the need.
 

mmckenna

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Drilling a hole in the roof of your truck will NOT impact resale value if you do it correctly.
I sold a 2011 F150 last year with two permanent NMO mounts in the roof and received higher than blue book value for it.
I've drilled holes in lease vehicles without issue.
I've probably installed a few hundred NMO mounts in my lifetime and never had one leak or cause damage. Family I've done it for never had an issue with trade ins.
Again, a properly installed NMO mount will NOT impact resale value.

What will impact resale values:
Rust streaks from clamping temporary fixtures to the bed.

Fender mounts can work, but they do not provide a proper ground plane for the antenna. The ground plane it provides is lopsided, so even if you use a 1/2 wave no ground plane antenna, performance is going to suffer. A 50 watt radio will likely subject the driver and/or passenger to RF. The proximity of the cab may also create a directional pattern for the antenna.

Look at the public safety vehicles you see around you, you'll see that top center of the roof is the location they use, and for good reason.

As for the GPS integrated mount, it's your choice, but it would likely be less expensive to do two separate NMO mounts. One for the VHF antenna dead center in the cab roof, and one for the GPS towards/just above the high mount brake light.

I've done installs on F150's and F350's, and they are extremely easy to install in.
The center of the cab on the left right plane is marked by the rib in the roof. On the crew cab models there is a flat spot towards the center in the middle rib that will hold and NMO mount. Routing the coax back to the rear of the cab down the channel and exit just above the rear dome light. From there the coax can be routed down to the rear of the cab via the C Pillar. I mounted the RF decks behind the rear seat.

The GPS NMO mount could easily be mounted directly above and in front of the center high brake light. Removing the light will expose the area for routing cable. Running it over to the C Pillar will give you a route down to the area behind the seat.

For power, run a dedicated + lead direct from the battery. I used 6 gauge since I was supporting multiple radios. I'd recommend an 8 gauge for your single radio, the larger gauge keeps the inherent voltage drop down. Install a 30 amp fuse as close to the battery as you can. If you want, install a fused distribution block behind the rear seat to feed the radio with a 15 amp fuse. You can use the other slots for adding other radios/accessories later on if you decide.
If you want to run ignition switched power, there are places to tap into that behind the front passenger kick plate.

External speakers really help, too.

A simple 1/4 wave VHF antenna will work very well for what you are doing, they have a nice radiation pattern that works well up in the mountains. They are also only about 18 inches tall, so tree branches don't become a problem.

I've got a post on here somewhere from about 2011 when I did the install in my F150, and a few other posts form the 2017/2018 area when I did the F-350's. The cabs on the F-350's are very similar to the 1/2 tons.
 

jeepsandradios

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I have 6 antenna mounts in the roof of my F150. Been looking at new trucks and not one dealer asked me about them when looking it over for trade in. I have been drilling holes for 20 years in all my vehicles and yet to have one dealer ask me. IF your worried leave the mount and put a NMO cap on it.
 

mmckenna

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IF your worried leave the mount and put a NMO cap on it.

Yep, that's what I did. I unscrewed the antennas and put NMO caps in their place. I removed the radios and all wiring, left the coax wrapped up behind the seat.
Dealers do not care. The only people that care about NMO mounts on a vehicles are significant others who don't understand.

Other option is to put a cellular type antenna in it's place and tell the buyer it's for a cell phone booster. Charge them $50 extra for it, then send me half of it. You can thank me later.
 

AI7PM

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My wife is interested in the resale value of the truck,.......

I've lost count of the vehicles I've sold or traded with NMO plugs, raincaps, and even bare NMO fittings in them. The dealers don't care. People drill holes for all kinds of things. Satellite radio, off road lights, roof racks,.........the dealers dont care. Add to that, on top of a pickup truck they may not even see the rubber plug.
Seriously, SAR isn't a game. Commercial or Public Safety grade equipment and install, or stay home.
 

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bigRoN18

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Drill a hole. either a single NMO mount, or a combo NMO/GPS if you need a gps puck. Like these.


Or, go with a stainless front fender NMO bracket for holes drilled if you're that concerned about holes in the body.


I have had the Larsen NMOGPS base installed (yes, GPS is important to me for my install). I took it to a communications shop to install it. He drilled the hole before taking down the headliner, leading to a potential problem. He drilled the hole into a space where there is a center channel, meaning that you can't directly access the hole if the liner is removed. We were able to run the cabling and secure the nut ring but it was NOT easy. The Larsen NMOGPS base has not only the 0.75" hole but also a 0.225" hole to keep the mount from rotating. It also comes with a big washer that goes underneath the skin of the roof to better secure it. Due to the center channel on the underside of the roof, it was impossible for this big washer to be placed. We also were unable to use any tools to tighten the nut ring. The only way we could tighten it beyond finger-tip tight was to use a screwdriver and a hammer; far from ideal! It is done and it works well so far. I worry that it could loosen up a bit, as we were unable to torque it down much. There is a neoprene-like gasket on the underside of the mount... there is some compression of this, so I hope it truly is watertight. It hasn't rained and I have not yet gone through a car-wash (with the whip removed obviously) to know how waterproof it is.
 

kayn1n32008

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Where your GPS antenna is not super critical. Even on your dash will still give reliable fixes. Especially if using both GPS and GLONASS.

I have had RTK receivers on my dash, even laying in the back seat still get initialized with an RTK solution and give +/-5cm fixes while driving at highway speed.
 

mmckenna

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I have had the Larsen NMOGPS base installed (yes, GPS is important to me for my install).

A good option is to run a separate antenna mount for each.

Since the GPS antenna doesn't require much ground plane, you can sneak it in just about anywhere.

I've used the dash mount pucks and never had an issue. I've also done stand alone NMO-HF mounts with a GPS only antenna.
 

tneal901

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For the most part, this is more a musing but I do have a question at the end. I am on the Communications Unit of the Placer County Sheriff's Search and Rescue and I'm the one that has single-handedly (for SAR) been implementing a system where all of our radios are Kenwoods using FleetSync and GPS for tracking searchers in the field. Previously, I had a Kenwood TK-7360H with an internally installed GPS unit, "installed" in my 2013 Ford Explorer (power cable was only permanent fixture in install) and used a magnetic mount NMO base and a magnetic mount GPS antenna. I recently traded in my Explorer for a 2016 Ford F-150 (XLT FX4 5.0 V8) so I could pull a new travel trailer. I wanted to put a permanent installation in my new F150, but no space for my TK-7360. I decided to upgrade my mobile radio to a TK-7180 and purchase the KRK-10 head separation unit, allowing me to install the radio and head unit in two different locations. I purchased another Garmin 15Xl-W GPS unit and installed it in the radio. I then programmed the radio, following all the steps provided for making GPS to work. I then set up the KRK-10 separation unit and tried testing it "on the bench" before installing it in my truck. Everything appeared to work fine except I got no audio out of the radio. I checked, rechecked, triple-checked, etc... over a period of several weeks, trying to figure out what I could have done to have messed things up. Not only this, but I couldn't get a GPS signal.

Both of these issues were driving me nuts, as I went over them many times with no success. I finally made an appointment with an authorized Kenwood dealer I've done business with before. He did one thing about the radio separation unit I had not done, he had a schematic that identified each pin on the separation cable and found on one end of the cable, while all the wires physically looked fine, one wire was not completely seated in the connector. This was thankfully a relatively easy fix. The next issue was with the GPS unit not reporting data. He checked my programming and did not see any flaws. On this particular radio, there are two COM ports you can install GPS to... I had connected it to COM 2. The tech tried connecting it to COM 1, but still could not get any GPS data. On a whim, he had the programming from Nevada County SAR radios, which uses the same software we use in Placer County for tracking searchers (actually, we use their software; the software was created by one of their team members). The radio immediately recognized the GPS unit. I have not yet figured out what I had set wrong, but it is all working now.

OK, now that everything is working correctly, I figured I'd pay for the tech to install the radio. I knew that he had much more experience in installing than I, so I knew he could do it neater and faster than I could, and I was there. I had him install the head unit in the alcove where the dash meets the center console, where the 12V accessory power and USB hub are located. I opted out of having it screwed into the bracket, as I think that would make it difficult to plug or unplug items into outlets in that compartment. The nice thing with this location is there is a door that hides it all.


My plan has been to purchase a Pulse Larsen NMOHFGPS antenna base, but have not done so yet. As I don't have it yet, I didn't want him to put the hole in the roof quite yet and I planned on using my magnetic mount for the time being until I finally get the antenna base. If anyone has familiarity with the details of a 2016 Ford F150, you will probably already see where this is going... I learned. Pretty much, the entire body, including roof, is all aluminum and magnets do not stick. One of the reasons I've held off buying the mount is spousal approval... she is hesitant to allow me to poke holes into the truck. From what I hear, this actually involves two holes... a standard hole you would make for a normal NMO mount plus a hole with a pin or bolt that keeps the unit from rotating on the roof. To solve the temporary issue, I've done something quite hokey... I went to Home Depot and got a piece of plate steel and mounted it to the side top rail of the pickup bed. I used a couple of C-clamps to secure it.

Now for my question, does anyone have any better ideas for my antenna situation, before I order the PulseLarsen NMOHFGPS antenna mount?
 

bigRoN18

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I have already installed the Larsen GPSNMO base. It works well but since the radio shop tried to put it in the center of the roof before dropping the headliner, there was a center channel that made installing the base challenging... we could not use any tools, only finger tips with arms in an awkward position to secure the underside. A ridge either left or right of center would have been simple.
 

mmckenna

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Problem is, they provide a lousy ground plane. It might look cool to some, it may satisfy those that do not want to drill a hole, but for proper operation, it's not the best solution.

But it's got it's place. Slap a 1/2 wave up on that and it will work well enough for most. It won't replace a properly installed NMO mount in the center of the cab roof.
 
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