KHP Aircraft Operations...

[kskarma]

Some years back, when listening to the KHP airplane as they were checking the speed of motorists, they would fly back and forth over a fairly long distance...up to about 10 miles and clock speeders with several stopwatches. More recently I have heard them using some newer technique...that seems to involve a GPS measurment?? I will hear the 'plane radio to the ground two numbers...one is obviously the speed...say...83 and the second is a distance...usually around 700 feet..give or take a few hundred feet. I have heard them refer to one number as the 'IBM' number...so...I think it must be some combination of the GPS distance taken with some sort of laser sight and a figure that is calculated from a laptop.......or ???? A typical transmission might be.."Red Ford pickup, passing lane...85 and 720 feet." Does anyone have the 'inside' info about this??

 

[Gilligan]

um. nevermind.

 

[KAA951]

Some years back, when listening to the KHP airplane as they were checking the speed of motorists, they would fly back and forth over a fairly long distance...up to about 10 miles and clock speeders with several stopwatches. More recently I have heard them using some newer technique...that seems to involve a GPS measurment?? I will hear the 'plane radio to the ground two numbers...one is obviously the speed...say...83 and the second is a distance...usually around 700 feet..give or take a few hundred feet. I have heard them refer to one number as the 'IBM' number...so...I think it must be some combination of the GPS distance taken with some sort of laser sight and a figure that is calculated from a laptop.......or ???? A typical transmission might be.."Red Ford pickup, passing lane...85 and 720 feet." Does anyone have the 'inside' info about this??

KHP rarely uses aircraft for traffic enforcement lanes anymore- it just isn't cost effective.

What you are actually hearing is the replacement- traffic laser (LIDAR). It is used by individual officers or, like you are hearing, during special enforcment lanes. On a lane, one officer will set up with the LIDAR and then call off the speeds and distance from the operator to pursuit cars usually waiting out of sight at the nearest onramp. LIDAR is extremely accurate- it puts out a laser the size of a pencil and is aimed at a single vehicle to determine speed, even in a large pack of cars.

I have heard IBM numbers used in the Topeka area by Topeka PD and Shawnee SO instead of badge numbers. A Deputy I know said that is the number associated with them in the CAD / MDT systems. KHP, TPD and Shawnee Sheriff regularly get together on the Interstates around Topeka to do joint LIDAR enforcement lanes- usually during morning rush hour. They even dressed up as KDOT workers with a borrowed orange KDOT truck to run LIDAR out of last year!

The officer running the LIDAR maintains a log of all the cars they check- and they keep track of which officer writes the driver a ticket in case it goes to court. So you should hear them calling off a speed and distance and in return be given the radio / IBM of the officer who is going to stop the car.

 

[TooLate]

Pretty much agree with KAA on the speed number then the distance to the pursuit car. I live in a border county in MO so one of the perks is hearing both states traffic. As stated, they don't use much air enforcement in KS and are using less it seems in MO (other than long holiday weekends on Interstates). But, both seem to use the 2 number call down to pursuit cars and it would go something like this: "Black full sized pickup, passing lane, 87, 4th car to you...now third car...now moved into driving lane...2nd car to you...next vehicle to you...(and after successful stop)...that is the correct vehicle...time is 14:27" (So everyone's paperwork agrees).

Since, KS becomes more plains soon after crossing the MO/KAN line, there seems to be much more opportunity to set up LIDAR in line of sight situations...much more cost effective than Av gas etc.

Anyone know where (frequency/service range) Chanute State is these days? Don't seem to hear them as much as I used to...have they gone APCO/Digital etc.?

 

[kskarma]

Great info....and it fits the situations..!!

Thanks for the good input...and I am sure that is what I have heard...both around the Topeka area and a few months ago west on I-70...in the Brookville area as I recall. I always wondered about the co$t of operating an aircraft..but...when I would hear them reel in several dozen an hour, the math made sense back then... The freq. in those days was 45.10 and was very interesting at times.
Good to know about the DOT vehicles...I will keep my eyes open for those kind of operations now...I am not a fast driver...(nor a half-fast driver...before anyone makes THAT pun!)..but I do like to know when I am being targeted. The short range instant-on radars have sure made having a radar detector pretty much useless, despite the advertising. When I see the "Alert" flash...and see the trooper a few hundred feet away, I know that it would have been waaaaaaay too late to hit the brakes...something about the speed of light, etc.....!

 

[NBW791]

Just to add to it, on LIDAR lanes, you will hear and ID number too. Usually it's as the next officer is pulling up in line he'll say, "What's my number?" Other times it will be as the violation is called out.

"Black Dodge pickup, 87mph, at 1427 hrs, ID #6."

 

[KAA951]

Anyone know where (frequency/service range) Chanute State is these days? Don't seem to hear them as much as I used to...have they gone APCO/Digital etc.?

All of Troop H (Chanute) is on the KSICS P-25 Digital system.

http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=RR&sid=4390

 

[Gilligan]

How far away is LIDAR effective? I saw some videos of it in action but can you effectively beat LASAR with a detector? And if they're shining it at the plate, how can the detector pick it up if it's such a small beam?

 

[KAA951]

How far away is LIDAR effective? I saw some videos of it in action but can you effectively beat LASAR with a detector? And if they're shining it at the plate, how can the detector pick it up if it's such a small beam?

Depends on the model- I have seen them work out to 2,000+ feet. More realistically 1,200 feet or less- it really depends on how steady the operator is in keeping the laser on the vehicle as they track it. The steadier and better they are at tracking the car the farther out they can get a reading. And, it doesn't have to be a front plate- a headlamp or grille will do. They are used all the time in Kansas and they don't have front license tags.

As to the detectors, unless the beam is on the detector they will not pick it up. There is no wildly bouncing radiation for it to pick up like you have around traffic radar.

 

[NBW791]

Just messing around before late at night the longest distance I've been able to get a reading at was just over 5,000 feet (almost a mile). Granted, I couldn't see what vehicle it was, but I was able to lock a speed with it and get the distance.

 

[TooLate]

NBW791
Have to ask...just how easy is it to "put the dot" on a moving vehicle...period...let alone at the distances you describe? My laser sighted handgun takes some heavy duty steadying to keep the dot on the target...and as the distance increases, movement is magnified (at least as I try to do it). I realize that the unit you're holding is probably heavier and may have stabilizing features (like digital cameras) but that must take some concentrated effort to hit a license plate or even a grill at 2000-5000 feet!

Secondly, KAA isn't it possible for me to use an analog scanner on a few of the published freq's to check activity before buying a digital unit? Or, will the DEC, HEX, Mode parameters prevent "any" monitoring?

Thanks for the link btw!

 

[KAA951]

Secondly, KAA isn't it possible for me to use an analog scanner on a few of the published freq's to check activity before buying a digital unit? Or, will the DEC, HEX, Mode parameters prevent "any" monitoring?

The only thing an analog scanner can tell you is that there is a signal on a specific channel by digital traffic (which sounds like static to me) or by using the signal strength meter. You won't be able to hear ANY digital audio on an analog scanner. Remember, the radio is breaking down the audio into digital (1's and 0's), sending it across the air and the radio receiving it has to reconstruct it from 1's and 0's into audio (this may be a bit simplistic for all of you engineers but is how I could put my mind around it).