Latest:NY-PA AND Ma/com

[brey1234]

So far, M/A COM has a spotty at best record of delivering on the contract. The company is already a year behind.
More importantly, the proprietary technology M/A COM is selling remains unreliable. Outside industry professionals are cautioning that the technology, even if reliable, does not meet federal compatibility standards so New York can talk to the rest of the country.
Still, that puts in question federal reimbursements, not to mention that one of the main points of this expensive exercise is that the system is supposed to be part of a national network.
On top of that, because M/A COM is crafting its own exclusive technology, any of the first responders or public safety types that opt to hook into it will have to buy equipment from M/A COM.
http://tinyurl.com/2c5bjk

 

[N_Jay]

Didn't you post this exact same repetition of old news yesterday?

 

[K2KOH]

Hey, N Jay, what do you have stock in M/A Comm or something? :lol:

 

[SCANdal]

Why, oh, why do I let myself get sucked in...

Still, that puts in question federal reimbursements, not to mention that one of the main points of this expensive exercise is that the system is supposed to be part of a national network.
On top of that, because M/A COM is crafting its own exclusive technology, any of the first responders or public safety types that opt to hook into it will have to buy equipment from M/A COM.

Gentlemen,

Let me be the first to say that I'm no fan of OpenSky (or NetworkFirst), but the factual errors in Mr. LeBrun's editorial piece do nothing to advance his legitimate cause of trying to call attention to the need to carefully procede forward with (or perhaps even think about ditching) this project before, as has happened already in Pennsylvania, good money gets thrown in after bad.

I'll deal with just the excerpts cited above (setting aside some of the do-zees in the article itself "federally mandated" "95%"), and please, anyone correct me if I'm wrong. First, the State was never to have sought "federal reimbursements." Unless something has changed very recently, this project is to be totally funded by the State - through the wireless communications service surcharges we're all paying on our cell phone bills, with additional support by anyone who opted to partner with the State (i.e.: Orange County). It's my belief that this funding scheme is intentional; to eliminate federal meddling in the State Police's ultimate plan here.

Also, the SWN was never intended to "be part of a national network." See paragraph two in http://www.osc.state.ny.us/press/releases/sept05/092205c.htm

Lastly, the contract, as agreed upon, called for the technolgy (namely OpenSky) to be open sourced in an effort to encourage other vendors to build radios capable of the system - thus: (a) not locking "public safety types" into one manufacturer, and (b) helping to drive down costs through competition. Now, if Mr. LeBrun had gone down the road to look at how slow M/ACom has been to release proprietary information or to look into the likelihood that Motorola, Kenwood, Vertex Standard, ICOM, and others may not possibily want to play along - thus insuring a virtual monopoly by M/ACom...that's a different story.

SCANdal

 

[N_Jay]

Hey, N Jay, what do you have stock in M/A Comm or something? :lol:

No.

Why?

 

[APX8000]

Hey SCANdal...I was told the other day that Orange County may no longer be a 'full participant' in the SWN. They are now just going to "share tower sites" and "provide a patch for state agencies (namely state police) to talk to county agencies." I'm going to a meeting with some of the county 911 higher ups soon, so I'll ask some questions that I'm sure will get the run around responses, but I'll try.

Last time I talked with them, I kept plugging them with the idea of a county system independant of the state (like Westchester just put up and like what Rockland is building). They started complaining about the cost. My next response was, "but it's OK to sign on as a Level 3 for the state and pass the costs on to the vollys by forcing them to buy $3500 portables?" I received a blank stare for a good minute after that.

 

[cfrostchief]

The sad part is the money spent. I do hear the paging is up and running in Erie County.

 

[SCANdal]

e,

So you're hearing rumors that Orange is going from a Level 3 down to a Level 2 partner. Hmm. Keep me posted.

SCANdal

 

[sc800]

I still don't get what this whole thing will do, it will allow the local and county agencies portables and in car radios to patch into the state system?

Isn't that what Intersystem and Statewide and Fireground channels are for?

 

[iamhere300]

I got very confused the other night. I was under the impression that Chautauqua county was already using the system to some degree, but I met with a county deputy who stated in a meeting just that day they were advised that they were not active in any way, and may never go active with the opensky network.

 

[SCANdal]

The Official Propaganda Source

I still don't get what this whole thing will do, it will allow the local and county agencies portables and in car radios to patch into the state system?

Isn't that what Intersystem and Statewide and Fireground channels are for?

8,

Not when the Statewides (155.370 for police, 155.715 for EMS, and 45.880 for Fire) are useless and aren't monitored because something as simple as a standard CTCSS tone can't be declared for them.

As to your first question...I think a bit of confusion remains because you might be of the belief that the "state systems," as we know them today, will remain in place. That isn't the case; they are to be scrapped and replaced by the SWN. I hate to do this to you but, I think in the long run, it might be for the best. I'll refer you the system's official website: http://www.oft.state.ny.us/oft/swnindex.htm so you can "hear" what it's all about right from the horse's mouth. See if you could make heads or tails of what's going on after reading some of the PDFs and clicking on some of the hyperlinks (special attention to paragraph 3 in the "Background Information" hyperlink in the "About SWN" box).

If you have any specific questions afterward, fire away...perhaps someone on here can answer it.

SCANdal

 

[jf222]

there is no money

neither Chautauqua county - nor the local PD's and VFD's have the money to go to the system - also the State Police doesn't have the money = $10,000 per police car for radio and MDT system. if anything, VFD's will purchase one portable [$3,500] so as to talk to the new system - old system must be retained by county to dispatch (paging - which cannot be done on a trunked system) and VFD's all have local licences for their base and mobile units

NY Thruway is not going to new system

Erie County VFD's have just gone to UHF and will not change
[also new paging system for the county VFD's is NOT part of the new system]

Erie County Sheriff and Buffalo PD don't have money to change

Niagara county will not change - but will install central dispatch equip to talk to the system from that location only

Remember: Federal grants are going only to systems that are compatible with the Federal Radios = P25 technology

 

[GTR8000]

This system is a complete joke and just another way for the great state of NY to waste countless taxpayers' dollars. Think of it as our very own "bridge to nowhere". While I think the IDEA of having a statewide system that anyone and everyone can use was noble, as usual the execution of it is piss poor. The very fact that they went with proprietary technology shows that there was at best a very shortsighted lack of understanding how much that would burden many agencies, or at worst some major kickbacks and pocket greasing going on.

Either way, I'm extremely thankful that Rockland has decided to build our own system based on an OPEN standard, and that the committee consisted entirely of guys that actually USE the system, so it was designed properly from the ground up.

 

[nyscan]

Either way, I'm extremely thankful that Rockland has decided to build our own system based on an OPEN standard, and that the committee consisted entirely of guys that actually USE the system, so it was designed properly from the ground up.

Has Rockland decided if they will become a partner at any level with SWN?

 

[GTR8000]

I honestly have no idea. However, if doing so is going to cost the county anything in terms of money or otherwise, then I should hope not. Hate to sound selfish but, we have no use for their system, so there's really no benefit that I can see of partnering up with them. Even if they pay us for space on our towers, that's all just money coming from our taxes anyway, which as I've already explained my feelings, seems like a total waste.

 

[sc800]

I've noticed a lot of people are talking about the cost of buying new radios, but on the SWN homepage it says:

SWN is fully compatible with any existing radio system to achieve interoperability


If this is the case, what is the big deal over radio cost? And, how is it true interoperability if counties begin to opt out?



Also, I have spoken to one police officer in Orange County who says the only thing he knows is Sprint/Nextel will be providing new radios for their patrol cars. He said he never heard of OpenSky or SWN before.

 

[SCANdal]

The K.I.S.S. Principle.

sc8,

That's "true," the proposed system could have interoperability with an existing radio system...if a link is established to that system. In the hyperlink I offered in my previous post, click on "NetworkFirst" in the "SWN Technology" box for details as to how that will be done. In other words...a complex layer of equipment will be added between the cop standing on a street corner - talking on his existing portable - and the trooper monitoring local police radio traffic at a state police barracks. As an aside, I myself have yet to find a listing of which existing radio systems the SWN gurus will be willing to link to (although, in all fairness, it may be too early in the process to figure all that out). Not to mention, as some posters above have hinted at, I could see a protective self-interest on the part of owners of some existing systems who could be relucant to allow those systems to be linked to the SWN - since (A) much of the SWN technology is largely unproven in the public safety arena and (B) many counties and larger cities could simply not wait for the state to get off it's ass and have invested substantial amounts of thier own monies in recent, significant radio system upgrades.

Regarding radio costs: If a county, such as Orange, opts to be a Level 3 partner (which may have changed recently, according to e911god), it is likely that their existing systems will be dismantled. What's a served agency (i.e.: a volunteer ambulance corps dispatched by the given county) to do? Well, click on the "SWN Contracts" link in the "SWN Information Resources" box then scroll down to the bottom and click on the "PDF" next to "SWN Equipment - Purchase Option." Scroll to page 8 and look at the price of a 700 MHz portable (model number P7230). Make sure to spit out your chewing gum first before you do that - I don't want you choke.

I don't think it's a matter of counties opting out. I prefer to see it as counties not being bambozzled and seeing this system for what it really is.

Lastly, about the cop on the street you met...I'm not surprized. As far as their radios are concerned, most know nothing more then "press this button to talk - release to listen." The same applies for the majority of firefighters, emergency medical personnel, public works employees, emergency managers, and a host of other civil servents. And, that being the case, the radio systems to support them should be designed with that foremost in mind.

SCANdal

 

[iamhere300]

sc8,

That's "true," the proposed system could have interoperability with an existing radio system...if a link is established to that system. In the hyperlink I offered in my

It also states under "gateway" partner, level 2, that the users will have to
share some infrastructure costs, as well as some cost to buy gateway equipment.

Level 1, infrastructure, you are left out in the cold insofar as interoperability
with other agencies that do use the new system.

And links never sound as good as they are made out to be.

 

[iamhere300]

It states also that NYC is a level three partner, yet I see other threads where NYC is
building out their own system, and buying vertex radios... Whats the deal there?

 

[N_Jay]

It states also that NYC is a level three partner, yet I see other threads where NYC is
building out their own system, and buying vertex radios... Whats the deal there?

NYC is not one agency.:roll: :roll: