M/A Com Woes New York

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rr60

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December 18, 2007, NY Times

New Police Radio System in New York State Draws Scrutiny
By JOHN SULLIVAN and AL BAKER

A $2 billion emergency radio network intended to connect all emergency agencies and local police and fire departments in New York State has failed its first major test, prompting concerns from some state officials and causing the state’s second largest city, Buffalo, to opt out of the system.

The contract to build a network of wireless transmission towers that would allow tens of thousands of police officers, firefighters and other emergency personnel statewide to communicate was awarded in 2005 to M/A-Com, a division of Tyco International. The system was supposed to be in operation in Buffalo and surrounding Erie County and neighboring Chatauqua County by last June.

After the network’s rollout in Buffalo, however, the city’s top fire official said its problems were so severe that the radios did not work in roughly half the city.

“West of the center of the city we had zero reception,” Fire Commissioner Michael Lombardo said last week. In the areas that did receive transmissions, he said, “it sounded like a guy was talking in a tin can.”

He says Buffalo now intends to upgrade its own radio system, which will then be able to connect with the statewide system.

Under the current state emergency radio system, large areas of the state are unreachable, and many police and fire departments cannot talk to each other. After receiving complaints from federal and state lawmakers, the State Office of Homeland Security is considering hiring an independent company to conduct its own tests on the M/A-Com network.

“We are strongly considering the advantages to hiring an outside company with technical expertise,” said Michael A. L. Balboni, the deputy secretary for public safety, who is Gov. Eliot Spitzer’s top homeland security aide. “If those glitches are still present when the system is presented to the state for acceptance and then payment, that will be a very large concern.”

He added that if the problems persisted, they could derail the project.

Officials from M/A-Com expressed confidence the issues could be addressed, and said problems in Buffalo had been caused by interference from other radio transmissions. The system has been tested in neighboring Chatauqua County, which is mainly rural, and officials there had no complaints, said Victoria Dillon, an M/A-Com spokeswoman.

The gaps were “localized in a few sites, like cell carriers, a TV station in Canada,” Ms. Dillon said.

Michael R. Mittleman, the state official overseeing the project for the Office of Technology, agreed.

“We believe that when we get back to the testing out there in February that the problem will be resolved,” he said.

Mr. Mittleman said that he hoped the system would be operating in the two counties by April, and that the state would decide at that point whether to accept the network. That makes the tests in Erie and Chatauqua counties especially critical.

An upgrade for the state’s antiquated emergency radio network had been in the planning stage since the 1990s, but the project took on new urgency after the Sept. 11 attacks. The project, known as the Statewide Wireless Network, will be designed so that even cities that do not directly participate in the project, like New York City, will be able to connect with the system.

The contract drew criticism when it was awarded by the Pataki administration, with some lawmakers questioning whether M/A-Com had the track record to handle the job.

The company hired former Senator Alfonse D’Amato, a close ally of former Gov. George E. Pataki, as its lobbyist, and telecommunications companies lobbied aggressively for the contract.

The project has encountered challenges. Recently, the senior state police official assigned to oversee the construction of the network said in an e-mail message obtained by The New York Times that the state’s Office of Technology had not been demanding enough of M/A-Com, and called the Erie County effort a “debacle.”

The official, Thomas J. Cowpers, a staff inspector, left the project after friction with M/A-Com and the Office for Technology officials.

Mr. Cowpers wrote in the e-mail message that his role had been curtailed “due to my incessant criticism of M/A-Com management and my constant frustration with O.F.T.’s unwillingness to hold them accountable. ‘’

Mr. Cowpers declined to comment, and Lt. Glenn Miner, a state police spokesman, said the state police would not comment on the e-mail message. “From everything I am told, we remain very positive about it,” Lieutenant Miner said.

Officials in Erie County, however, said the problems were serious.

Michael R. Summers, president of the union representing sheriff’s deputies in Erie County, said he thought the system might have been pushed into service too soon. He said the radios worked in some areas but received no reception in others.

“There were spots where we could not communicate with each other,” he said. “We would move 10 feet up the road, and it would work.”

According to a report from the state comptroller’s office last December, the state was scheduled to have the new radio system running in Erie and Chautauqua counties by last June.

Ms. Dillon said the company now expected the system to be operating in the two counties by the end of the first quarter of 2008. After that, the state will have 45 days to accept or reject M/A-Com’s work. If the state rejects the system, Ms. Dillon said, it will not have to pay anything.

The entire network is scheduled to be finished in 2010.

When M/A-Com won the contract, critics raised questions about the company’s handling of a wireless contract for Pennsylvania. That system, expected to be finished in 2001, was more than three years late and cost more than double the original projection. But in a statement last week, New York officials said the delays in the Pennsylvania contract were caused by problems unrelated to M/A-Com.

The total cost of New York’s system were slow to emerge. When it was first proposed, state lawmakers were told it would cost more than $1 billion, but far lower than the $3 billion bid by M/A-Com’s competitor, Motorola. By the time the contract was signed in 2005, the final cost was $2.1 billion.
 

ButchGone

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Re:

This seems to be an ongoing issue with MA/Com, whether it's New York, Pennsylvania or anywhere else. Never on time, years of delays, cost overruns and numerous problems with the systems. I'm not an advocate or detractor of either Moneyrola or MAybe-it-works/Comm but it sure sounds like the newer MA/Com stuff is not what it's promised to be.
What's funny, is that amateur radio operators are able to build regional and even statewide repeater systems that work very well and are highly reliable along with ability to use radio gear from a variety of manufacturers - at a fraction of the cost the big two charge government.
Cheers!
BG..
 

ElroyJetson

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It's the "lowest bidder syndrome" all over again.

M/A-Com got the bid because they said they'd do it for less. They didn't get the bid because
they said they'd build a better system than Motorola was offering.

The beancounters screwed the taxpayers again by demanding that the lowest bid is the
one that wins.

I really think the whole bid system is screwed up beyond belief.

If I ran the zoo, the bid process would be, in simple terms, competition for the better
system at a FIXED price.

"The state offers 2 billion dollars total for a statewide system. Submit your proposals
that total not one penny more than 2 billion dollars. They will be analyzed by an independent and impartial organization that is technically qualified to make the analysis. The system they say is the better solution shall be the winner."


I really think that'd be a better way to do it. No lowball bids, just competing system
designs at a fixed price.


Elroy
 
D

DaveNF2G

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There's more to the NY situation in this case than just the lowest bidder problem.

The State, particularly NYSP, has a history of going with GE over Motorola. M/A-Com is the current incarnation of GE radio.

Also, NYSP brass want a radio system that nobody can monitor.
 

n4dog

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The M/A Comm system in Florida is just as bad. I have a friend that works with the Capital Police in Tallahassee and he said the radion will not even work in most parts of the Capital.
 

karldotcom

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I see Buffalo says they are pulling out of the system.....will they patch to it if it ever gets fixed in the future?
 
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kd5dga

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That is a crying shame. To add to the insult the state is looking at hiring a independant agency to find the problems that most if not all agencies already know of.
I have some bridges to sell.
chalk one more up for M/A Com.
 

bigbluemsp

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Nothing new from M/A COM they are milking Oakland County Michigan for billions for one single county. 10 years and not a thing to show for it but the loss of a ton of money.
 

kd5dga

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I think that M/A-COM is making up for the problems that TYCO had a few years ago with their abilities to properly control their finances.
 

iMONITOR

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I think there should be a Federal investigation into M/A COM, and the people who continue to throw money their way.
 

PJH

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ButchGone said:
This seems to be an ongoing issue with MA/Com, whether it's New York, Pennsylvania or anywhere else. Never on time, years of delays, cost overruns and numerous problems with the systems. I'm not an advocate or detractor of either Moneyrola or MAybe-it-works/Comm but it sure sounds like the newer MA/Com stuff is not what it's promised to be.
What's funny, is that amateur radio operators are able to build regional and even statewide repeater systems that work very well and are highly reliable along with ability to use radio gear from a variety of manufacturers - at a fraction of the cost the big two charge government.
Cheers!
BG..

Yes, but you cannot provide 99% reliable uptime and coverage, nor multiple channels, data coverage, etc.

As much as I have seen some nice multisite/wide area ham systems, they cannot compete on the same level as a system with remote montioring and various failsafe options.

Also using 22gage wire as patch cables doesn't help matters at times ;)
 

PJH

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Forgot to add, IIRC, the NYS contract states that the state pays nothing. As the system is accepted in phases, the state will pay for that phase. Right now the state is just out some hopes and dreams.
 

PJH

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Oh, it hasn't been, but the state is not on the hook for the oodles of money (yet).
 

ECHO3

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"It's All in the Planning"

I live in PA. When NY signed a contract for an M/A Com OpenSky system, I had the opportunity to correspond with one of the M/A Com folks in charge of the NY project. The gentleman told me that PA was a borderline failure, but NY would be fine because "it's all in the planning". Yup! I hope the folks in Illinois have a good plan or are good at rolling with the punches!
 

kd5dga

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What is sad is right now there is alot of money at stake no matter if its the TAX PAYERS money or M/A COM's funds.
I thnk that when state wide sytems are thought of that a approach needs to be made where regions should have been set up first to develope the needs for those areas. fix the mistakes and short commings.Once those regions are up and running properly then combine them all together. Have relistic timelines. Sometimes the folks who want the systems go back and ask for more options where the basics have not been met yet. All this get piled up from the sales person(s) and get dumped onto the technicians to figure out. Why have such a technicially complicated system at first where a simple start like a EDACS system at first.Then start employing higher technology. It is only commom sence.
 

PJH

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OpenSky really is a cool product...when it works.

PA played the role of contractor, which complicated their install. MA/COM isn't all to blame, but with all the software changes that had been made seems a little suspect to me.

NY on the other hand should have seen these problems. They did take a higher road in getting a systems intergrator to avoid the PA problems, however...the radio system itself isn't making the grade.

Then again, NYS has loved GE products for many, many years so we kinda knew this was all going to happen. I'd love to see a Motorola system come to the state. CT, OH, MA, NJ - all border states use a statewide Moto systems which would help with "interop" situations without adding all sorts of extra hardware. There are also more Moto based trunked systems in NY than others, so that helps out in those metro areas.

I have yet to see a proven, installed, MA/COM statewide system. They make great EDACS systems which work well, but their WAN systems haven't matured yet.
 

mike916

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The premise of a VOIP based radio system is valid in as far as building a network is concerned but what I have seen with M/A Com and Opensky, It needs a bit more lab/software work to work out the bugs. The company I work for is in the process of building a 900 Mhz Opensky system and although the hardware was delivered early last summer they have been thru at least 3 or 4 software upgrades since and there are still problems. Although they have done a full tweaking at each of the sites they have still not scheduled the coverage tests and that seems to be a while off. A few of the problems include consoles that loose their configurations and portables that don't remember who they are.

One of the problems I see with the system is in the roaming protocol. It doesn't check for another site or frequency to use until the signal is at the point where data is already being lost and doesn't switch until the signal is too bad for communication. I suggest to them that they instead build a table of frequencies and scan on a regular basis (like every minute or so) to refresh the RSSI and re-register on the strongest. There are also a few little tricks that would make the system more frequency efficient.

IMHO, I believe that the problems can be resolved but I also think that they have over-sold and have too many different products and projects out there at this time and they need to either hire more competent engineers or put a harness on the sales forces.
 

SCPD

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PJH said:
OpenSky really is a cool product...when it works.

PA played the role of contractor, which complicated their install. MA/COM isn't all to blame, but with all the software changes that had been made seems a little suspect to me.

NY on the other hand should have seen these problems. They did take a higher road in getting a systems intergrator to avoid the PA problems, however...the radio system itself isn't making the grade.

Then again, NYS has loved GE products for many, many years so we kinda knew this was all going to happen. I'd love to see a Motorola system come to the state. CT, OH, MA, NJ - all border states use a statewide Moto systems which would help with "interop" situations without adding all sorts of extra hardware. There are also more Moto based trunked systems in NY than others, so that helps out in those metro areas.

I have yet to see a proven, installed, MA/COM statewide system. They make great EDACS systems which work well, but their WAN systems haven't matured yet.


NJSP uses a Moto 800MHz trunked system. It has been in place since the 80's and they still have dead spots. Apparently when NY was testing it was interfering with NJSP.
 
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