At a local county fair in Indiana, local CAP units were using them to communicate with each other. They had a booth at it for recruitment. This was July 2008, so they are in use in some places. These were the government version, not the "family" version.
Military "FRS"
- Thread starter CrabbyMilton
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rescuecomm
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The Icom 4088 military version is in use by various federal agencies although it was originally developed for the Marine Corps. The Corp went on to use a British developed radio for their ISR with freq hop and encryption etc. What appears to be Icom 4008 federal units were on ebay early in the year. Mostly very beat up units in groups of 8 and 12.
Bob
Bob
Wouldn't be a good idea if the enemy had the same radio. Pretty sad that our military has to use FRS for coms.
Mean while....JTRS has cost loads of money producing only one damn hand held.
Personally, I have UHF business radios that I programed. MIL Spec too...
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rescuecomm
Member
After a little snooping on the web, it appears that the Marine Corps is now using a COTS slightly modified Motorolo XTS2500 HT with a special headset for the intrasquad radio concept. At $1300 a pop, it should work well in the role with the digital encryption.
I always think it is interesting to see how much more it costs the military to specify battle gear for a mission than what the guys in the field think is functional. The soldiers and marines were using FRS/GMRS radios to coordinate squad level operations at about $60.00 per radio. The Army buys the Icom Soldier Intercomm (F43GS plus headset) setup for about $2000.00 per radio. The Marine Corp buys the Motorola XTS 2500 with headset for about $1300.00 per radio. This is to use until the billion dollar JTTRs radio system comes on line (if it ever does).
The Motorola and Uniden GMRS radios used AA batteries, while the Icom/Motorola COTS radios will require every soldier/marine to have a 120volt outlet to charge his radio up before the mission. I suppose they have this covered for everyone but long range recon or limit field missions to less than 16 hours (two batts worth). Running the XTS radios in digital mode supposedly cuts the air time down a lot.
Bob
I always think it is interesting to see how much more it costs the military to specify battle gear for a mission than what the guys in the field think is functional. The soldiers and marines were using FRS/GMRS radios to coordinate squad level operations at about $60.00 per radio. The Army buys the Icom Soldier Intercomm (F43GS plus headset) setup for about $2000.00 per radio. The Marine Corp buys the Motorola XTS 2500 with headset for about $1300.00 per radio. This is to use until the billion dollar JTTRs radio system comes on line (if it ever does).
The Motorola and Uniden GMRS radios used AA batteries, while the Icom/Motorola COTS radios will require every soldier/marine to have a 120volt outlet to charge his radio up before the mission. I suppose they have this covered for everyone but long range recon or limit field missions to less than 16 hours (two batts worth). Running the XTS radios in digital mode supposedly cuts the air time down a lot.
Bob
I think if someone was shooting at me I would not want to talk on FRS/GMRS handhelds about the almost empty clip of ammo I'm down to, or to communicate someone behind me, with more firepower, about exactly where the enemy sniper is shooting from. I don't think one with speech inversion would increase my confidence either. But what do I know about combat? I've been in one situation where someone was shooting in my direction close enough to hear the bullets fly by my head hitting trees behind me and the ground within 10 feet of me; but it was only because the man didn't know I was there, at least that was my assumption since he drove off. Even though it opened by adrenaline valve fully, it was not combat. So I guess I know as much about combat as I do about walking on the moon or brain surgery, i.e. nothing.
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When I was in the CAP, we had several of the ICOM military IRS radios and I actually got to use them. Most of us on ground teams who needed to use a radio didn't really care for them. We preferred our VHF radios, simply because the IRS radios didn't have the range we needed.
rescuecomm
Member
The JTRS, called "jitters" for short, is a software defined radio protocol that includes voice comms, internet, data, etc. It is supposed to allow all new US military service radio gear to communicate with each other (ground, air, naval). A good idea, but much was asked for and it has been way over budget in some of the development programs. The deal with troops using FRS/GMRS is that US Army/Marine policy has never been to supply each marine or infantryman a personal radio. Each squad of 15 to 20 men would have a designated radio/operator to securely communicate with headquarters. Law enforcement issues each officer a handheld radio because they usually operate solo. The urban anti-terrorism operations in Iraq and Afghanistan tend to be more of a police type action with manhunts and door to door sweeps than with traditional combat defensive/offensive operations. As an ex-leo, you can see that it would be hard to do these without comms between individuals since by necessity some guys are going to be out of hand signal sight covering exits, etc. I am agree with you, FRS/GMRS radios would not be my first choice, but it appears that for quite a while, they were the only affordable answer and they did work. Commercial off the shelf radios such as the Icom F40GS with the encryption module and the Motorola XTS2500 digital radios are much better. The DOD was obviously not prepared for the occupation of Iraq at all. However, the main mission since 1945 was stopping the Red Army's offensive push into Germany and they were equipped for that mission.
Bob
Bob
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Hello.
With the narrow banding coming up there is a lot of surplus commercial UHF coming up.
So I decided to ask what power levels ISR is authorized.
A 110 watt mobile will do about 80 watts around 398MHz and 48 watts around 467MHz with just at 50 around 462MHz.
And of course 440 at 100+ watts.
The NTIA guys are as content as everyone else with it, so 80 watts it is.
With the narrow banding coming up there is a lot of surplus commercial UHF coming up.
So I decided to ask what power levels ISR is authorized.
A 110 watt mobile will do about 80 watts around 398MHz and 48 watts around 467MHz with just at 50 around 462MHz.
And of course 440 at 100+ watts.
The NTIA guys are as content as everyone else with it, so 80 watts it is.
montana1975
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ch 6 had digital at bullhead city airport in arizona the other day
montana1975
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no nac seen
nd5y
Member
Some time after this thread was started (in 2008) several of the ISR channels were removed and as noted in post #31 it is not uncommon to find the channels used for other things, such as inputs to DoD trunked radio systems (paired with outputs 10 MHz lower).
Might FRS mean something different in military terms?
nd5y
Member
The OP in 2008 didn't know it was called ISR (Intra Squad Radio).
As fas a I know only Icom made the radios and ISR may not even exist any longer. There is no mention of it, or the frequencies, in the current NTIA Redbook however it does mention goverment agencies being able to use civilian FRS radio for non-critical purposes.
RFI-EMI-GUY
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Marconi made an ISR radio the size of a pack of cigarettes. 2.4 GHz 100 mw, using two AA batteries. It was spread spectrum , CVSD modulation and 512 user selectable spreading codes. You see them for sale from time to time. They work strictly with a headset. If you search for "Personal Role Radio (PRR)" you will see one.
prcguy
Member
That's the Marconi now Selex PRC-343. I have a drawer full of them. I've successfully wired cell phone audio accys instead of the hidious stock headset that nobody wants to wear. Most versions have a military audio cable and a second PTT button so the headset will work simultainously with another radio.
prguy
prguy
spacellamaman
Member
true that and how i discovered i was real close one time. since then have incorporated input freqs as separate scan list for such occasions.
since the topic is in the air if i may ask, if a transmitting radio is for example on 396.850 will the tower be re-transmitting, as a rule, exactly 10mhz off that or simply on any of the available freqs?
example
396.850=386.850
or
396.850=any of the available freq for that tower
i apologize if this isn't terribly clear but i am not sure how to explain what i am thinking any better
nd5y
Member
Government LMR repeaters and trunked systems in the 380-400 MHz band use a 10 MHz offset. High in, low out. They use the the frequency pairs they were assigned, not "any of the available freqs".
Apparently, the military ISR "experiment" of very low-power radios for intra-squad communication was not very successful. The IC-4008M radios are no longer available from ICOM and there is no other vendor. The IC-4008M radios used by CAP are not being replaced once they are no longer serviceable.
John
John
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