Military Radio Ideas - Hytera PD985

[andkai247]

Me and some friends are gearing up and I am a total novice in the radio department. What radio do you think is the best for a group of 6-10 people?

I have looked at TRI PRC152 clone but I have mixed feelings about it. I also looked at Hytera PD985 which also offers DMR and encryption which can be used in a group.

What would be the things to look at when choosing a commercial radio to be used in a military environment? What parameters and objectives define what kind of radio should be used?

 

[Floridarailfanning]

What are you "gearing up" for? Are you wanting to use the radios for private comms among friends or for coordination of commercial/organization activities?

I also looked at Hytera PD985 which also offers DMR and encryption which can be used in a group.

You can't run digital voice or use encryption on FRS, GMRS, or MURS so that would be a no-go right off the bat.

I get the feeling you're involved in some kind of militia group since you want military-grade radios with encryption for a small group. If that's indeed the case your best bet would be getting your organization to explore a Part 90 license.

 

[KevinC]

I get the feeling you're involved in some kind of militia group since you want military-grade radios with encryption for a small group. If that's indeed the case your best bet would be getting your organization to explore a Part 90 license.

Assuming they are in the US.

 

[andkai247]

What are you "gearing up" for? Are you wanting to use the radios for private comms among friends or for coordination of commercial/organization activities?

You can't run digital voice or use encryption on FRS, GMRS, or MURS so that would be a no-go right off the bat.

I get the feeling you're involved in some kind of militia group since you want military-grade radios with encryption for a small group. If that's indeed the case your best bet would be getting your organization to explore a Part 90 license.

Sorry for not clarifying, not in the US. No problems with licences here. Gearing for a possible military conflict in my country and we are not issued radios by default. Setup is a helmet mounted headset, PTT and a radio. To make it clear, I want commercial available radios that can be applied to a military environment.

 

[prcguy]

Would it be too much to ask what country? You could PM me the info if your not comfortable posting here.

Sorry for not clarifying, not in the US. No problems with licences here. Gearing for a possible military conflict in my country and we are not issued radios by default. Setup is a helmet mounted headset, PTT and a radio. To make it clear, I want commercial available radios that can be applied to a military environment.

 

[andkai247]

Would it be too much to ask what country? You could PM me the info if your not comfortable posting here.

I think I can not PM yet? It says no permission to do this. You can send me a PM instead. Its not that I am not comfortable discussing the issues of my country, its just that this will get political. Needless to say we are a US friendly country but the opposition is supposed to be called a NATO ally that lately bought Russian Anti Aircraft Systems, is in close ties with Iran / Hamas and got banned from purchasing F35's.

 

[PACNWDude]

Hmmm, if this were me, I would lay in a pile of Motorola Trbo mobiles (sold as XiR models in Asian countries) and handhelds. Buy some headsets, possibly some Bluetooth kits, and use the "Basic" Privacy settings for some sort of encryption as a minimum. As for Harris AN/PRC-152's or Thales AN/PRC-148's, if you can't buy F-35's (I know which country that is.) you most likely can't get these radios as well.

Motorola Trbo/XiR radios are built to many military and intrinsically safe standards, are readily available, and have encryption/privacy already included. They make great intra-team/command and control radios for use in the field. A well known cartel group used them extensively with repeaters in rural environments in the past. Drug smugglers prefer Motorola encrypted radios

Just do not fall into the trap of buying old Clansman radios from the UK.

 

[PACNWDude]

This is the article I was really looking for. Shows older Motorola XPR6550's and others in the tables of radio gear confiscated. Portable solar powered repeaters, mobiles in use as base-stations, etc. Do something like this with current model Trbo XiR Motorola radios, and you and your crew would be set. In a previous life, some of us brought our own Motorola (amateur) radios on military deployments. That made for some interesting contacts and listening. Here is the link for more information/context. Radio Tecnico: How The Zetas Cartel Took Over Mexico With Walkie-Talkies

 

[prcguy]

I cannot PM the new guy yet and it sounds like he is in a US friendly country so I'll offer my opinion. I would stay far away from things like the TRI military look alikes, they are cheap $25 radios in nice cases that look like the real military radios but the radios inside are junk.

You might make a list of what you want the radios to do like needed operating range, do they need to be small and discreet, what kind of battery life do you need and can you carry lots of spare batteries, band or frequency range, etc. Band and frequency range will determine how well they will work in your environment like UHF may be better in a dense city with lots of tall concrete buildings and VHF may be better in a rural area. VHF lo band is commonly used by various militaries but the antennas are very long and range can be reduced due to antenna deficiencies.

I would look at what frequencies your country uses for police and business radios and if you use frequencies near those you might blend in with other typical radio traffic and not stand out as a target. I would also go for a digital mode radio like DMR/MOTOTRBO or P25 with AES-256 or equivalent encryption as that cannot be decrypted in real time as far as we know.

Adding a mobile magnetic mount antenna can really extend the range while in a vehicle and a base antenna can greatly extend range to mobile and hand held units. Many hand held radios can be powered in vehicles using a replacement battery case with cord and 12V cigarette lighter plug. You can also make adapters to use the car radio antenna to extend the two way radio range without looking like you have a two way radio in the car.

I've owned and played with many of the modern military radios out there and most are not well suited for what you are doing and they are extremely expensive and almost impossible to find surplus. A commercial off the shelf radio is a better and cheaper choice. I don't know what you are able to buy in your country but if you have access to US companies here is what I would recommend for cheap high quality military grade radios. There is a version of the Motorola XTS2500 that was purchased by the US Marine Corps and designated the AN/PRC-153. It covers 380 to 470MHz in wide/narrow FM and P25 digital and has AES-256 encryption and front panel programming.

There are lots of these radios being sold surplus in perfect working order for well under $150 US and batteries, chargers and antennas are cheap. Programming software should be easy for you to find. There is also a very cheap encryption key loader available. You might program a bunch of frequencies, some near where your local police or business operate, some far away, all in P25 encrypted. You can program the radios to scan so someone can call on a different channel each transmission and all radios scanning will pick up the transmission. This makes it a little more difficult for anyone trying to find you or listen in.

These radios are very small and rugged and I have several here I use all the time. If and when your PM is working I can point you towards various dealers that have these radios for sale and to the key loader. I can offer advise and opinions but I cannot get involved beyond that.

 

[andkai247]

Hmmm, if this were me, I would lay in a pile of Motorola Trbo mobiles (sold as XiR models in Asian countries) and handhelds. Buy some headsets, possibly some Bluetooth kits, and use the "Basic" Privacy settings for some sort of encryption as a minimum. As for Harris AN/PRC-152's or Thales AN/PRC-148's, if you can't buy F-35's (I know which country that is.) you most likely can't get these radios as well.

Motorola Trbo/XiR radios are built to many military and intrinsically safe standards, are readily available, and have encryption/privacy already included. They make great intra-team/command and control radios for use in the field. A well known cartel group used them extensively with repeaters in rural environments in the past. Drug smugglers prefer Motorola encrypted radios

Just do not fall into the trap of buying old Clansman radios from the UK.

Actually most of our units use Harris PRC-152 but we as reserves are not equipped. This is why I’m trying to gear up and not count on reserve equipment. That’s why I mentioned hytera such as pd785 due to encryption and group DMR.

 

[andkai247]

I cannot PM the new guy yet and it sounds like he is in a US friendly country so I'll offer my opinion. I would stay far away from things like the TRI military look alikes, they are cheap $25 radios in nice cases that look like the real military radios but the radios inside are junk.

You might make a list of what you want the radios to do like needed operating range, do they need to be small and discreet, what kind of battery life do you need and can you carry lots of spare batteries, band or frequency range, etc. Band and frequency range will determine how well they will work in your environment like UHF may be better in a dense city with lots of tall concrete buildings and VHF may be better in a rural area. VHF lo band is commonly used by various militaries but the antennas are very long and range can be reduced due to antenna deficiencies.

I would look at what frequencies your country uses for police and business radios and if you use frequencies near those you might blend in with other typical radio traffic and not stand out as a target. I would also go for a digital mode radio like DMR/MOTOTRBO or P25 with AES-256 or equivalent encryption as that cannot be decrypted in real time as far as we know.

Adding a mobile magnetic mount antenna can really extend the range while in a vehicle and a base antenna can greatly extend range to mobile and hand held units. Many hand held radios can be powered in vehicles using a replacement battery case with cord and 12V cigarette lighter plug. You can also make adapters to use the car radio antenna to extend the two way radio range without looking like you have a two way radio in the car.

I've owned and played with many of the modern military radios out there and most are not well suited for what you are doing and they are extremely expensive and almost impossible to find surplus. A commercial off the shelf radio is a better and cheaper choice. I don't know what you are able to buy in your country but if you have access to US companies here is what I would recommend for cheap high quality military grade radios. There is a version of the Motorola XTS2500 that was purchased by the US Marine Corps and designated the AN/PRC-153. It covers 380 to 470MHz in wide/narrow FM and P25 digital and has AES-256 encryption and front panel programming.

There are lots of these radios being sold surplus in perfect working order for well under $150 US and batteries, chargers and antennas are cheap. Programming software should be easy for you to find. There is also a very cheap encryption key loader available. You might program a bunch of frequencies, some near where your local police or business operate, some far away, all in P25 encrypted. You can program the radios to scan so someone can call on a different channel each transmission and all radios scanning will pick up the transmission. This makes it a little more difficult for anyone trying to find you or listen in.

These radios are very small and rugged and I have several here I use all the time. If and when your PM is working I can point you towards various dealers that have these radios for sale and to the key loader. I can offer advise and opinions but I cannot get involved beyond that.

First of all thank you for taking the time and effort. It is much appreciated. I would love to chat to you hopefully an admin can fix the PM issue for us. Maybe it’s a security for new member i might have to make some more posts. If not I will come back with another solution. I am proficient in software and hardware mods so I understand what you are saying. Most of my family used to live in the US and some of them still do so no issue for me finding what I want.

I will look at the gear and check what I can find. What do you think of the Hytera PD 785 / 988? Should in go for the Motorola because of more spare parts and help guides?

 

[prcguy]

I am not familiar with the Hytera radios. I hear they are good quality but I think you need a high level of encryption and I don't know what Hytera offers.

For the surplus Motorola XTS2500/PRC-153 you would need a new battery for each radio at $25 for a Chinese version or about $100 for a Motorola brand battery. The Motorola batteries are better quality and will last longer but probably not 4 X as long, so the Chinese are ok for the price. New antennas are about $10, a surplus charger is about $30. Serial programming cables are about $15 and USB is about $30. A KFDtool key loader for AES-256 with Hirose cable is $250 and you would need one Hirose adapter for the radios at around $55 new. I would change encryption keys daily at the minimum for your type of use.

First of all thank you for taking the time and effort. It is much appreciated. I would love to chat to you hopefully an admin can fix the PM issue for us. Maybe it’s a security for new member i might have to make some more posts. If not I will come back with another solution. I am proficient in software and hardware mods so I understand what you are saying. Most of my family used to live in the US and some of them still do so no issue for me finding what I want.

I will look at the gear and check what I can find. What do you think of the Hytera PD 785 / 988? Should in go for the Motorola because of more spare parts and help guides?

 

[CaptDan]

Can't we get thru 4th of July, labor day, and Halloween first ?

 

[alcahuete]

What do you think of the Hytera PD 785 / 988?

They are very good radios. I like my Motorola XPR radios better. The XPRs also perform better, but the 785/988 is very rugged and a very capable radio.

 

[rescuecomm]

What about the commercial UHF versions of the XTS2500? How much better is the PRC-153 for outdoor use? My backcountry SAR experience leads me to prefer VHF high band for operating without infrastructure. For intrasquad use, it probably won't matter much.

 

[prcguy]

This is a confusing question to me. The XTS2500 is a commercial radio. The PRC-153 is an XTS2500 purchased under military contract with a few unusual features like front panel programming, very dim backlight for night vision goggles and some slightly different encryption options. They work about as well as any higher tier commercial UHF radio.

VHF has advantages in some areas and UHF is better in other areas. The large number of PRC-153 flavor XTS's being surplused are only available in UHF and the sheer quantity out there has driven the prices down. An equivalent VHF XTS2500 model III will cost more, although there is no equivalent unless someone has added the features and encryption board from a PRC-153. I had a guy build me a VHF version using the keypad/encryption from a PRC-153 as it was the easiest way for me to get AES-256 in a VHF XTS2500 at the time.

What about the commercial UHF versions of the XTS2500? How much better is the PRC-153 for outdoor use? My backcountry SAR experience leads me to prefer VHF high band for operating without infrastructure. For intrasquad use, it probably won't matter much.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I think I can not PM yet? It says no permission to do this. You can send me a PM instead. Its not that I am not comfortable discussing the issues of my country, its just that this will get political. Needless to say we are a US friendly country but the opposition is supposed to be called a NATO ally that lately bought Russian Anti Aircraft Systems, is in close ties with Iran / Hamas and got banned from purchasing F35's.

... Turkey.....

 

[prcguy]

Not in Turkey and he want's to avoid a political discussion here.

... Turkey.....

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Not in Turkey and he want's to avoid a political discussion here.

Yes I know the OP is "not Turkey". See what I highlighted.

When the subject is "Military Radio Ideas", and it is obviously not one that is paint ball related, it becomes political by default. One needs to be very careful who they are helping.

Lets be honest, who really knows what battle the US is fighting at any given moment. Since 2001 the entire M.E game fuster cluck has been entirely cryptic. Now it seems the Afghanis we trained and equipped are simply handing it all to the Taliban. Not surprising.

 

[rescuecomm]

Prcguy

When I Google AN/PRC 153, I don't get anything showing the radio's specifications. I also don't see them on the usual online sale sites. Hard to compare specs when they ain't none.