Milwaukee Police Finish Conversion To OpenSky Communication System

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mkescan

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Milwaukee Police Finish Conversion To OpenSky Communication System | Newsradio 620 - Milwaukee, Wisconsin News, Talk, Sports, Weather | Local Headlines

MILWAUKEE - The Milwaukee Police Department's newest and controversial digital communications system, OpenSky, has begun now in full operation.

"We're announcing, sooner than we really wanted to, that on Wednesday, September 22nd, we flicked the switch, so to speak, and made the total conversion to 700 megahertz on the digital system," said Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn in an exclusive interview on 620WTMJ's "Wisconsin's Morning News."

OpenSky is the new digital system which gives police officers the ability to communicate between each other and their stations.

Basically, police departments across America will be required by 2013 to make a switchover from analog to digital communications, similar to the switch television stations made from analog to digital signals.
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"We're the first police department in the country to both move to 700 megahertz and go digital at the same time, and it's working," said Flynn.

He also said the city implemented a new 911 system.

When asked as to whether the OpenSky system was safer than the one the MPD is giving up, after recent problems involving dead spots during its initial trials, Flynn said, "Absolutely."

He said the system is working despite what he called a hard transition, and the fact that police officers are still telling the department about imperfections it's finding.

"We're sending 30,000 transmissions a day, and we're continuing to get the occasional trouble report, which we ask for, and it's going to happen with any new system," said Flynn.

"We've stayed on the cops saying 'tell us every single problem you have with this damn thing, but we've got it working."

The system includes giving every officer on assignment a walkie-talkie.

"That's never been done before," explained Flynn.

"Basically, that means 24 hours a day, there'll be 1,000 radios on the streets in possession of our officers, programmed to them personally. As soon as they push the talk, we know who's talking to us. If something unfortunate should happen, we know who it is and where they went."

Flynn explained that to solve officers' problems, crews have already put up one new communications tower, and they are constructing another one.

He admitted that the problems the system has had in its initial trials over recent years have been tough - particularly in dealing with the company that provided Milwaukee Police the system.

"Nobody's making any excuses," said Flynn. "It was very frustrating, particularly initially, because part of the problem was that the vendor the city chose many years ago was acquired twice in the process.

"Unfortunately for us, the people that acquired it most recently, an outfit called Harris Communications, is a major player. I would say in the last year, we really, gradually picked up the kind of momentum we needed to get this deal done."

Flynn said that one reason they could "flip the switch" had to do with acquiring $2 million in consoles for free from Harris, because the first set of consoles had become obsolete.

"We got more than what we paid for."
 

ToDaMax

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I wish Opensky could be tracked. I am happy that Milwauke Police has a well operating system, but it would be a burden to anyone if there is a black hole where you cannot listen to anything. I really am not looking forward to when the MFD (I listen to Fire and EMS) swich, because then I'll only be able to track 50% of Fire transmissions of Milwaukee County, which makes tracking Milwaukee County really have no Incentive anymore
 

ToDaMax

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Well, I know that they are not going to give up this Opensky BS unless you set fire to it with a nuke or somthing. If they are determined to get a lousy system to work, and Flinn is doing everything possible to prove a stupid point that he can get this to work, i dont think we have much of a choice
 

TrenchFeeder

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This is such a joke. I been watching the news reports about this and I gotta say, Milwauke you wasted a crap load of money that could have been spent on less complex digital radios that work better and are much cheaper.

I don't get either, what the hell kind of radios was your department using that they had comm problems? The city of Chicago uses analog radios, they dont even use CT or DC codes, and they don't have a problem communicating car to car or station to station.

Even the pidly little local PD's around me, all using OLD analog systems, that have complete interop with every city around, and have reception 40 miles out. It's completely ridiculous that the taxpayers of Milwauke let this happen

If you ask me, this OpenSky company is nothing more than a bunch of scammers.
 

ToDaMax

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Exactly. I think it is stupid and a waste of money. I see no reason for this crap. They are going to get this stupid Opensky bull**** that they dont even need, waste so much money, get so many problems, that can be subsituded by simple other means of communication, all because Edward Flinn is a stubborn moron. A 17.1 million dollar waste of money. I will never like that i cant scan it, and other people who listen around would agree. However, beyond that personal judgement, people who dont even scan hate it. Cops themselves hate it. Everything is working against them, and the question is, why dont they pull the plug?

Heres a really good alternative. How bout you scrap opensky and its BS and join Milwaukee County's Motorolla Type II BS. You can communicate easier with every suburb that boarders you that are on it, it costs way less because your not installing a whole new system, just installing simple talkgroups, and it has a much lower failure rate which means communication, which is what a radio system should be doing in the first place, and everyone will be happier that it works better and doesn't waste taxpayers moeny.

So why dont we do that? Because I'm Edward Flinn, and i have a promise to make that makes no sense to anyone else including me. I also promised a friend that i would try cutting my arm off to see what it feels like, so i better go do that to. Sure thats a bit blatant, but i'm sick of this whole thing
 
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mkescan

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MPD radios are P25 capable, but Milwaukee County is a few years away from going digital.
 

ToDaMax

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The whole opensky thing is just annoying. Between the two forum profiles (MFD and this). Opensky is a problematic system that does not seem to have a good future, and not trying to swich to the system over to obviously better alternatives is obviously a reason beyond any understanding i have
 

R8000

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Yea, I have to agree with Stateboy on this one. A few issues with the statement that just made me facepalm a bit. However, the comment about Harris is true.

Milwaukee is in too deep now to just pull the plug. But, don't worry...I am sure Opensky will become obsolete soon enough as Harris is more worried about P25IP than a 15 year old format that only sold to a few handfull of customers to begin with. When Harris is sick of throwing money at this dead format, they will kill it off and tell Milwaukee you have X amount of years of support on this, then it will not longer be supported.

Harris is a good company. They were foolish to buy out M/A Com, but oh well. They inherited this system and realized if they do want a slice of the two way market, they have to make good on it and threw money at it.

Proprietary public safety systems are a bad idea. In saying this, I realize I contradict myself with Motorola Smartnet systems....lesson learned. The patent for Smartnet expired, allowing EFJ and Kenwood to make radios that work on them now. So, you do have a choice of radio for now. Motorola was smart and produced a great format that has proven to be reliable and stable. That's how they pulled it off. GE's EDACS isn't too bad either, they seemed to do OK with it as well. But, if you want a new radio, your stuck with a GE/MACom/Harris/Tyco radio. Outside of that, meh. The original run of LTR systems without the added "GOTO data" was a complete failure and downright dangerous for public safety. Newer generations of LTR systems now have "GOTO data". However LTR is open to many different vendors, but I wouldn't use one on public safety...there's not enough redundancy in the format. Like in event you lose a PA or transmitter. Then everyone on that home channel is SOL.

Proprietary systems in commercial/business use is a little different. Mototrbo and Nexedge have their place. But not for public safety.

I am not a fan of digital systems in general, but you have to admit P25 has been alright as for as multi vendors being able to use radios on a system. I too still like analog, but with the push to 12.5 khz narrow band, analog audio suffers a bit. You notice that the audio just doesn't sound loud enough. Then you factor in 6.25 khz coming up.....and now analog audio is pretty much useless and you have to go digital to make anything work or sound right.

Milwaukee would have been smart to abandon Opensky and go P25 trunked back when P25 was making it's debut. After all, it's been 7+ years for this system to finally get to this point. Then they wouldn't have been in too deep to pull out before blowing it's cash on Opensky. If they had went P25, they would have more vendors to chose from for equipment and have something interoperable.

I agree with the comments about scanners. Even though there's nothing to force a PD to allow the public to listen in, it's a good show of faith to allow the public/taxpayers to hear what's going on. I also have no argument about encrypting something sensitive like a investigation, SWAT call, Drug stings...etc. But day to day patrol activities do not need to be encrypted or otherwise unmonitorable.

Back in the day, a county close to where I grew up went to a 800 MHZ Smartnet system. This was years before trunk tracker scanners were out yet. The state troopers and city police *****ed about not being able to monitor anymore. Soooooo the county reused their old base/repeater and connected it to a 800 dash mount mobile and made a one way 800 MHZ to low band link to allow other agencies to monitor on a scanner. They loved it. It was only on the mail patrol/dispatch talkgroup and I think is still in use to this day.

Why can't Milwaukee do this ? Leave one existing base in place and connect a Opensky mobile to it to allow ONE WAY linking from Opensky to UHF for other agencies to monitor as well as the public ? Or two or more if need be. This would solve other agencies being able to monitor, as well as showing a good sign of faith and allowing the public and media to continue to listen in. If there is an incident where they think the "perp" has a scanner, simply switch to a talk group that doesn't have the UHF link on it for the duration of the event....problem solved. With this setup, the City PD has total control over what gets broadcast on the UHF link for the public to hear, and has the ability to switch to a non linked talkgroup for privacy. Then the city only has to maintain a simple UHF transmitter, pass filter and antenna/line. No receiver(s), no voter, no leased lines/microwave links for it. Maintenance costs are minimal. Any good reputable two way shop would probably just cover it under a MA without a cost increase do to it's simplicity.

There are some in the WI State government that will say this is illegal to setup a link like this. That is total BS. It's been done and is being done as I type and is legal.
 

ToDaMax

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Only time will tell what will happen to Opensky. It would be nice if all public saftety would be one system in this county, and organize it and encript private channels as they please, instead of trying to force towers and controllers to do different things over 2 differnet systems and what not. Because i'm sick of trying to peice together events when i dont even hear half of what i need to hear to make any call, Fire/EMS/PD, in the county make sense
 

70cutlass442

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Can someone please clarify for me... I thought the 2013 deadline simply states that you must be narrowband... not digital? we did several case studies on digital comms in the fire industry, and frankly i am concerned that digital systems will have a detrimental effect on the fire industry.
 

OpSec

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2013 is a narrowband ONLY mandate. There is no P25/digital mandate, period. It's not hard to get the correct data, yet the media nationwide continues to screw this one up. I don't understand what's so hard about it.

P25 phase II/AMBE vocoders apparently handle the fire service background noise issues better than original P25 IMBE equipment. I have not partaken of any new equipment testing in that manner, but I'd be curious to see if it is in fact better. The companies would like you to believe so.
 

70cutlass442

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2013 is a narrowband ONLY mandate. There is no P25/digital mandate, period. It's not hard to get the correct data, yet the media nationwide continues to screw this one up. I don't understand what's so hard about it.

P25 phase II/AMBE vocoders apparently handle the fire service background noise issues better than original P25 IMBE equipment. I have not partaken of any new equipment testing in that manner, but I'd be curious to see if it is in fact better. The companies would like you to believe so.

I hope that is true, I am very curious to see how they work, otherwise I don't see why analog simplex cant be used at firegrounds, as far as I know, in Waukesha county, I only hear Brookfield make use of the current simplex TRC channels. Having basic knowledge of how RF works, I dont know why this is not done more often. on a Sidenote, if and when MFD goes open sky, that will be havoc for them, I have heard police on open sky and i think my old 49 MHZ walkie talkies I had as a kid had better audio quality then opensky,
 

N9NRA

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I too have to agree with what`s been said here, so all i`ll add is this, this OpenSky thingy is Milwaukee`s cookie, they made it...and now they`ll have to eat it. `Nuff said :). N9NRA
 
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