Monroe Counties New Harris P25 System

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P25_GURU

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Wanna hear a Harris P25 simulcast system live???..

Listen to the York County PA Fire, EMS, ATR feed here on Radioreference..

Its right from a Harris radio directly into the feed computer..

They even use the system on fireground, in building, with SCBA's WITHOUT issues..

Please keep in mind... The NFPA experiments were done with MOTOROLA radios only.. Harris, Kenwood and even Moto radios NOW have noise canceling technologies included in all of their radios...

DONT TAKE A SCANNERS AUDIO AS GOSPEL.. ITS A SCANNER NOT A P25 PUBLIC SAFETY GRADE RADIO.. There is a difference..

73 to all and to all a good night
 
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DaveNF2G

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IIRC, the original issue with the Motorola digital audio was their use of a half-rate vocoder. As I understand it, that has changed in their more recent products.
 

P25_GURU

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They ALL use the same Vocoder... They have all changed to the latest and greatest noise cancelling technology...

New ballgame from the original NFPA tests..

They even have a PASS filter to get rid of the PASS noise...

73 to all and to all a good night
 

ThePagerGeek

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As a P25 system manager, I can ASSURE you that the Monroe County system will deliver at or BETTER than what the county spec'd in the RFQ..

Testing will tell once the system is up and running.

Harris has come a LONG way in the P25 arena and has a very reliable product,, The MASTR 5 base station is a Tank.. It has all of the usual bugs / hiccups worked out and will be alive for many years to come.. It's the new Mastr II or Micor (if ur a bat fan)..

With the Master V being so new, and still working out the bugs, I wouldn't deem ANYTHING a "tank" just yet. No more different than me calling the GTR8000 a "tank." Neither have proven themselves overwhelmingly, yet.

As for your radio model question... It will most likely be the P7300 or Unity portable.. M7300 or Unity mobile..

Actually, XG-25 for services, XG75 for Pub Safety for portables. M7300 / Unity for mobiles.

As for the " Encryption Board" no being installed.. Their are no add on boards, it's a software flash in the radio that enables the feature.. To physically look at a radio, they all look the same, inside and out

As for comparing a P25 system to Opensky, Thats a comparison like a XTS5000 compared to a P10 portable.. TWO DIFFERENT WORLDS, built in two different factories by two different groups of engineers..

That's for sure...

Harris engineers use a tool that is becoming the industry standard for system coverage, its called Raptor.. It takes into account the terrain, foliage, obstacles and all the other system parameters involved.. Raptor can predict coverage like no other program.. It is very reliable.. I have personally seen the actual coverage MATCH the Raptor plot to a T... York County, PA and Richardson, Ky systems

This is not becoming the "industry standard" although it does USE industry standard specifications. This is a prediction tool no different than Hyrda or ComSoft coverage tools.

If you want proof of success, Look at York County in Pennsylvania.. Over 250 repeaters, 24 sites , 45 frequencies, configured into 4 systems (3 simulcast, 1 VDOC), all set up for county wide coverage and over 4000 radios all working seamlessly through mountains, foothills, river valleys and open plains..

York County and Monroe County aren't really comparable. They are 2 different areas, each with their own unique challenges. Size, population, average building densities, terrain, etc

As for your comment to the NFPA tests, NFPA didn't perform the tests, NIST did. NFPA advocates not using the trunk system during interior firefighting operations. (That's a good thing.) They also advocate not using digital for those operations even simplex, but I agree with you that technology has come a long ways. The problem is, there is no official test or report from a third party (such as NIST) demonstrating it being ok now. The only written document says "evil." Therefore, when covering your *** from a development aspect, you must lean towards what you'll be on the hook for.

And regarding "asking around"... I am constantly looking and talking to people as I work on systems. Regardless of manufacturer, it depends on the infrastructure and expectations. If you build a 95% street level system, it is impracticable to EXPECT it to have coverage in every building. Thus, if the system was built for a certain coverage, the users should learn to adapt to that coverage, for better or worse.

tpg
 

P25_GURU

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Check the York County Forum for the latest...

The chief wanted his time in the newspaper AGAIN..

Typical Whiner....

This chief has been a dispatcher for York, A fire chief responsible for setting up the buildings and areas in his district to be coverage tested and is on the Radio System Committee..

He knows he has a poor coverage but FAILED to have his guys switch to Talkaround... Chief Failure, Not Radio system..

73 to all and to all a good night
 
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D

DaveNF2G

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A system user is complaining.

A manufacturer's employee is calling the system user names.

Credibility? It's a tie.
 

P25_GURU

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Truth be told... I don't work for or represent ANY
manufacturer..

I just know all parties involved and know the
Perpetual Whiners..
 

ThePagerGeek

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He knows he has a poor coverage but FAILED to have his guys switch to Talkaround... Chief Failure, Not Radio system..

Reading the article, the Chief did not have system coverage OUTSIDE. Regardless of talkaround on the fireground... is this accurate? Was this area already identified as an area within the 5% deficiency area.

I'm interested in the facts.

tpg
 

w2csx

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Rochester,NY
Wanna hear a Harris P25 simulcast system live???..

Listen to the York County PA Fire, EMS, ATR feed here on Radioreference..

Its right from a Harris radio directly into the feed computer..

They even use the system on fireground, in building, with SCBA's WITHOUT issues..

Please keep in mind... The NFPA experiments were done with MOTOROLA radios only.. Harris, Kenwood and even Moto radios NOW have noise canceling technologies included in all of their radios...

DONT TAKE A SCANNERS AUDIO AS GOSPEL.. ITS A SCANNER NOT A P25 PUBLIC SAFETY GRADE RADIO.. There is a difference..

73 to all and to all a good night

I believe the guy is using two bc250 scanners for the live feeds.
 

k2hz

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That application failed to ask for a waiver of the 800 application freeze so they filed another on 7/18:

ULS Application - PubSafty/SpecEmer/PubSaftyNtlPlan,806-817/851-862MHz,Trunked - 0005297828 - MONROE, COUNTY OF

The waiver request contains this description of the planned system:

"The system consists of three simulcast cells two of which are comprised of 700MHz (known as the East and South Cells) general use spectrum and the other is planned for 800MHz NPSPAC spectrum (known as the West Cell)."

The FCC returned their application again. This time it was because they did not use valid codes to describe the antenna structures:

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/let...T&radioServiceCode=YE&op=LetterPdf&letterTo=L
 
D

DaveNF2G

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I guess all of the Radio Center people who knew how to do this stuff have retired.
 

P25_GURU

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Fact #1: Yes, The Chief KNEW he had Little to NO coverage at the incident address.. Talk Around would have been the ONLY and Correct choice..

Fact #2: He uses Two Harris P5400 radios for the feed radios..
 
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w2csx

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Fact #2: He uses Two Harris P5400 radios for the feed radios..[/QUOTE]

So he must have upgraded his equipment, cause the email I got from he was using uniden scanners. Bust anyways....
 

ThePagerGeek

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Fact #1: Yes, The Chief KNEW he had Little to NO coverage at the incident address.. Talk Around would have been the ONLY and Correct choice..

So how is he supposed to communicate with the dispatcher / comm center? Cell phone?

tpg
 

dampier

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Another major problem cropping up with the P25 systems is interference from nearby cell towers. In the case of Oakland, AT&T's 2G network on 850MHz completely overran Harris' P25 system on 851-854MHz. Police radios simply failed to operate reliably whenever they got within 1/2 to 1/4 mile away from one of dozens of AT&T towers with 2G service.

AT&T Blamed for Oakland’s Public Safety Communications Interference; Partial 2G Shutdown | Stop the Cap!

Public safety has the priority, so AT&T has been ordered to shut down 2G service on those frequencies. Amazingly, this problem has existed in Oakland for at least one year and it took some FCC field engineers to finally pin it down. Needless to say, Oakland officials are unimpressed with Harris and the police union has sought to see the system scrapped in favor of a regional emergency communications network being constructed separately.

Evidently cell towers operating on nearby frequencies can overwhelm portables, and these are not cheap. Additionally, Oakland's P25 system simply does not work reliably inside buildings and, ironically, has no coverage on the lowest floor of Oakland's police department headquarters.

What could possibly go wrong with that?

Sometimes the latest whiz-bang stuff public safety agencies manage to acquire thanks to opaque bidding and the occasional tidal wave of grant funding may not be the best solution for public safety. But it sure makes the consultants and vendors a big pile of cash.
 

bigcam406

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oshawa,ont,canada
this isnt the first time ive heard this.our local municipality just agreed to a 48.5 million deal for Harris to supply a new radio system for our first responders up here taking effect in 2014.i doubt that we will be hearing if any issues take place,as our elected officials even declined to answer questions for a reporter doing a newstory on the costs involved.these comm giants must rub their hands together everytime a tender is put out for a changeover,promise them the world,and deliver absolute garbage,after the contract is locked in for how many years.and guess who's paying for it? sorry,rant over.
 
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