More CSX Digital Nonsense

[timkilbride]

Where I work, everyone is saying we are going to digital. What they really mean is we are going to narrowband. These guys have no idea how radio, frequency, modulation, ect.. work. Our radios in our new locomotives are analog/digital GE radios. They have all the narrowband frequencies in them. The digital toggle has been disabled in them so we can only use analog. At the very least(and required), railroads are going to narrowband. Until I hear a train dispatcher in P25 audio, I won't believe it.

Tim K.

 

[burner50]

Where I work, everyone is saying we are going to digital. What they really mean is we are going to narrowband. These guys have no idea how radio, frequency, modulation, ect.. work. Our radios in our new locomotives are analog/digital GE radios. They have all the narrowband frequencies in them. The digital toggle has been disabled in them so we can only use analog. At the very least(and required), railroads are going to narrowband. Until I hear a train dispatcher in P25 audio, I won't believe it.

Tim K.

First words I ever heard in training after hiring out on the Railroad were:

Dont believe anything you hear, and only half of what you see.

Words to live by in the railroad world.


Soooo the cars are already air-tested you say??? Show me the airslip.

I'm doing it wrong according to such and such rule? Show me the rule in the GCOR.

 

[aaronneely1]

Nexedge radio

Hey guys sorry its took me so long to post the pics been at work we had a pretty good amount of snow and it wiped our code line out at work and been pretty busy but here is the pics. It seem some people may seem unsure if it will happen all I know is I was told it was going to and know they are making everyone get the new radios. All managers was told by jan 2010 all radios would be kenwood to get all the old portables back from the men and issue the nexedge radios. It is NOT P25 but is digital it is set up in zones mine is set up ZONE 1 local wide band Zone 2 narrow band local zone 3 csxt network. In it turns into digital mode to activate the encript you push the orange button it then makes the radio encript on digital mode it will also encript on the other zones but we are not using it on them as of now. As one said before belive nothing you hear and half of what you see. Take this info how you may. I am not here to try to prove anything just simply sharing what I know.http://forums.radioreference.com/at...ent.php?attachmentid=26439&stc=1&d=1261452628

 

[aaronneely1]

I will share just a little This saved alot of money for the company and with a few "Better Plan" was able to start the system network for Plan "Operation Secure Voice"

Consider the end-of-train (EOT) device. More than just a red flashing tail light, these devices, which cost about $3,200 new, provide two-way communication with the engineer. They monitor brake pipe pressure, detect accidental separation of the train, and allow the train to be put into emergency from the rear. They contain built-in GPS to track and locate CSX-owned EOTs.

With interchange of cars comes the expense. If CSX uses another Class I’s EOT, CSX pays a daily fee. If the other carrier uses a CSX EOT, the other carrier pays. In 2008, the money CSX paid out to use other Class Is’ EOTs was not offset by the money collected from them, which resulted in an $800,000 net expense for the year. During that year, EOT fees were a $3,000-a-day expense for CSX.

Putting a Better Plan into Action

This year, local Mechanical employees solicited help from Transportation and developed EOT handling plans that follow best practices outlined in the EOT Playbook. They worked with support from Joe Lengfellner, manager-EOT / HTD radios, and Paul Johnson, black belt-Process Improvement.

“Some of those best practices included car inspectors working in conjunction with yardmasters and determining just who would remove the EOT and where it would be stored for each train,” said Johnson. “They checked and updated EOT inventory throughout the shift, capturing and mailing foreign EOTs back to their owners as soon as possible.

“Now field managers are taking a proactive stance, planning ahead for inbound EOTs, setting expectations and accountability for them,” Johnson said.

The result from putting the new plans into practice: Since May 2009, CSX has eliminated the net monthly expense and has gone through six straight months of net gain. CSX is on track to save $1 million for the year over 2008 expenses.

“We’ve seen good cross-functional teamwork between Mechanical and Transportation field employees, who are paying attention to details and recognizing the importance of reducing costs in a difficult economic environment,” said Johnson.

 

[DPD1]

Looks like the NX300. I think the 200 doesn't have the dtmf keys.

 

[aaronneely1]

Deleted alot of info that will not be gave out on this topic. Copied from company site


Security Network Radio Policy
1.0 Purpose
Purpose of this policy is to address requirements and limitations on the various zones in place at CSX in order to apply appropriate level of controls to the associated risks within each zone.

2.0 Scope
This policy applies to all CSX employees, temporary workers, independent contractors, and agents who use CSX Radio Resources.

3.0 Policy

3.1 General Use and Ownership

CSX Network Zone Definitions:

Red Zone:

This zone is defined as the most vulnerable and every measure to protect CSX assets that reside in the Red Zone must be taken, only a limited number of devices will be placed in this zone. The security focus within this segment will be on proactive prevention.

Green Zone:

This zone is defined as having a high vulnerability due to the public access required for business productivity.



Blue Zone:

This zones provides the highest level of protection.The Blue Zones will be segmented to allow for the highest level of availability. The security focus for Blue Zones will be on proactive monitoring and protection through the CSX Special agents.

 

[wwhitby]

I did some digging on the NX series radios and encryption. This is what i've found.

- The orange button can be programmed for encryption.

- FM voice offers voice inversion an a slot for an encryption board. Voice inversion is included with the radio.

- NXDN voice offers what Kenwood calls "NXDN digital scrambler", which they say is basic encryption. This is included with the radio.

- For NXDN voice, there is an option for an AES encryption module. The module and firmware will be available in 2010.

There's also a post here on rr.com about Kenwood NXDN encryption - http://forums.radioreference.com/kenwood-forum/146561-nexedge-code.html

For the life of me, I can not understand why a railroad would want to encrypt operations? I could see special agents, but not yard or road communications. This would be paranoia to the extreme!

Warren

 

[aaronneely1]

National security vital link in Us military transport goods. I know it sounds crazy to me to like um there going to encrypt it so if a terroist is listening they wont know where a train is ??? umm easy to hear with out a scanner they have big horns LOL I have no clue why honestly other than security of whats being said. Alot of info is gave over the radio such as Info from the mech dept on how to get in to the computers on the locos as well as other things. And where the yard master wants the stuff parked in what track the chemicals and other nasty stuff So it will cut down on some stuff a bit but anyone with much railroad knowledge could find the info else where. I could care less what they want me to talk on as long as it works and dont cause a saftey issue. It is getting crazy everytime something happens with terriorist they push harder and faster to make sure the rails are safe. They are cracking down big on tresspassers and stuff. You truly never know why you are haven your pic taken or video taped any more could be for many wrong reasons and not rail fan. I mean we are on high alert after the terroirst and the plan incident dec 25th. We are to report anything out of the ordinary ,and people takin pics or videos or tresspassers and you better bet I do. It may be the boss E testing to see if we report it! And if we dont on the street lokin for a job! paranoia you say? Man you just never know about anyone or anything these days so the safer they want to be i am all for it !!If you work place said um lest byuy the men new equitment in hope to help protect them and the company goods as well as the millions of others would you be aginst it?

 

[n7maq-1]

Looks like the NX300. I think the 200 doesn't have the dtmf keys.

The NX200, and NX300 look the same without the antenna. For the last 20 years Kenwood has always used TK-2xx as VHF, and TK-3xx as UHF, and TK-4xx as 800/900MHz Portables (the mobiles are TK-7xxx, TK-8xx UHF, and TK-9xx as 800/900), the same holds true to the NX-xxx series. The full keypad models are NX-x00 K2

Jim

 

[radiofan1]

The NX200, and NX300 look the same without the antenna. For the last 20 years Kenwood has always used TK-2xx as VHF, and TK-3xx as UHF, and TK-4xx as 800/900MHz Portables (the mobiles are TK-7xxx, TK-8xx UHF, and TK-9xx as 800/900), the same holds true to the NX-xxx series. The full keypad models are NX-x00 K2

Jim

I think it goes more like

K1/K3 full keypad
K2/K4 full keypad

 

[kd4efm]

Kenwood and CSX....Digital, maybe, but, Yes it is true....

I know this sounds like a beaten dead horse thread, but to set it straight, yes,
all of the FBU's (Florida Business Units) and CSX-PD's have Kenwoods.
(to take it to another level, CSX-PD also has SAT-COMMS being installed that is both VOIP-PTT and INET)

NO, the Engines do not, YES there is a NX-700-CC in production.
JEM Radio

PASTE:
The JEM Radio is based on a 6.25 KHz digital radio with all the form, fit and function of the AAR requirements. You may choose the ICOM F5061D or the Kenwood NX700 radio as the core radio. Both of these radios perform as 25 KHz, 12.5 KHz or 6.25 KHz radios. This clean cab radio (JEM Radio) is designed to function as a one or two piece. To make the JEM Radio into a two-piece radio, the control head is removed from the front of the deck and a blank installed in its place. The control head is inserted onto a remote mounting plate and installed into the standard AAR opening in the locomotive throttle stand. The deck may be mounted under the floor. A data/power cable is routed from a 19-pin connector on the back of the deck to the 19-pin connector on the back of the remote control head. The JEM Radio is then operated normally.
•Reliable Voice Communication
•One-Piece or Two-Piece JEM Radio Configuration
•Programmable Option to Disable 25 KHz in Year 2013
•Programmable HOME Numbers
•Programmable PLL Tones


YES, all yard crew and jobs have Analog AAR channels (according to area)
(yes local radio tech are programing the portables as North, Central, and South areas)

Yes, CSX-PD has a Digital Channel, Talk-Around on AAR 62, and Analog.

Yes, the NX700/800 radio's CAN BE FLASHED OVER TO P25.

Yes, I have a NX-200 with DTMF, (all RR radios are required to have DTMF btw)

The Tampa, Winston, Bone-Valley area is heavily using Kenwood NX-200's.

Yes, CSX is going Narrow band (6.25KHz) by 2Q 2012.


To further the search for information, DPD Productions has posted a list of the NEW
Chl assignments.
DPD Productions - Railroad Frequencies: New 12.5 kHz / 6.25 kHz AAR Radio Plan

From what I have seen, this is what is to come.



NOTE: NXEDGE and DSTAR
D-Star is AMBE, while NXDN/iDAS is AMBE+2. Chip is produced by the same company,
DVS Inc.
DVSI Home Page
and no, the ICOM D-Star's will not decode NXDN/iDAS transmissions.
Icom and Kenwood ARE compatiable in Digital mode however.
YES there is talk about TRUNKING, but not anywhere in the Tampa Bay area at this time.

I have heard that it will be used in Jax Yard, and I can not confirm a chatter that
FEC is going to be using Kenwoods either... if that plays out, NS, FEC, and CSX would
have a trunk system in the Jax area that would be interoprable. (as a test bed)
(i will leave this for the railfan lists on yahoo)




Happy New Year


Evans F. Mitchell
KD4EFM / WQFK-894

Fla. D-Star Tech Support Group
Welcome to the Florida D-Star information website... — Florida D-Star Information

Polk ARES A.E.C.
Polk County, Florida - ARES (Amateur Radio Emergency Service)

BB8330 PIN: 30965B58

 

[timkilbride]

Yes, I have a NX-200 with DTMF, (all RR radios are required to have DTMF btw)

Is this a CSX or FRA rule/law?

Tim K.

 

[AK9R]

Tim, DTMF is commonly used on railroads to activate remote bases, alert dispatchers, and operate radio-controlled switches.

 

[burner50]

Tim, DTMF is commonly used on railroads to activate remote bases, alert dispatchers, and operate radio-controlled switches.

LOL....


He didnt ask what it was used for... I was also wondering if that was a CSX or FRA rule because I've never heard of that before.

 

[AK9R]

Unless the FRA rules make some provisions for the three uses I mentioned, I don't know that the FRA would care. However, you'd have a hard time raising a dispatcher in many locations on CSX without DTMF, so it may be a CSX requirement. One of the regional carriers around here, The Indiana Railroad (INRD), uses DTMF-controlled switches in several remote locations, so they probably have a requirement for DTMF radios, too.

 

[Lynch_Christopher]

I know this sounds like a beaten dead horse thread, but to set it straight, yes,
all of the FBU's (Florida Business Units) and CSX-PD's have Kenwoods.
(to take it to another level, CSX-PD also has SAT-COMMS being installed that is both VOIP-PTT and INET)

Thats interesting that the CSX PD will begin using SAT COM communications. How long before that system is operational?

I was also wondering you mentioned that you have a Kenwood NX-200 , would you happen to know if on the CSX Boston Mainline in Massachusetts if they also use the Kenwood NX-200's? Im wondering if they have any plans to go to digital in New England any time in the future.

 

[DPD1]

Thanks for the info Evans. If they do the test system down there, that will be interesting. I'm still betting that digital will not be heard on mainline use for some years. But we'll see.

 

[timkilbride]

Unless the FRA rules make some provisions for the three uses I mentioned, I don't know that the FRA would care. However, you'd have a hard time raising a dispatcher in many locations on CSX without DTMF, so it may be a CSX requirement. One of the regional carriers around here, The Indiana Railroad (INRD), uses DTMF-controlled switches in several remote locations, so they probably have a requirement for DTMF radios, too.

I just wanted to know where the requirement came from. I do work for a railroad, not all our handhelds have DTMF. We have a remote control switch and dispatchers that need toned up. The locomotive radio does find for all of it. If it was a valid requirement for handhelds to have DTMF, I would say something to our leaders. It appears its NOT a requirement since no source/law can be listed.

Thanks

Tim K.

 

[timkilbride]

Tim, DTMF is commonly used on railroads to activate remote bases, alert dispatchers, and operate radio-controlled switches.

I know.

Tim K.

 

[aaronneely1]

I know that on my division dtmf is used to operate a few switches as well as to ring up the dispatche rthis is also true for NS because we have to tone them with dtmf to get permosion to work on there line in a few spots as well. DTMF is on all our portables and i dont think was required but with out it unless you are on a engine you couldnt ring in the dispatcher. Other than working on the main line I do some other things for the company that require me to ring in the dispatcher when I am not close to a train.