MOTOTrbo details

[Baylink]

A little googling tells me that MOTOtrbo is an implementation of ETSI Digital Mobile Radio standard, and way more than you ever wanted to know about it is here:

DMR - world leading professional digital mobile radio

Velly intelesting...

Note that ICOM, Kenwood, and Vertex are all on this list (and Kenwood *bought* Zetron, some time ago, which I hadn't realized)...

 

[JRayfield]

Yes, MOTOTRBO is based on DMR. Therefore, contrary to what many have claimed, MOTOTRBO is not a 'proprietary' system. There are 'proprietary' features, but this is no different than Motorola's Astro 25, which is based on P25, but includes 'proprietary enhancements'.

Vertex will be releasing a DMR radio by the end of this year. Hytera has already released and started shipping DMR equipment. And Tait will be releasing DMR-based equipment (not sure when). All of this equipment is/will be available in the U.S.

DMR is quickly becoming a worldwide standard for digital communications, right beside Tetra and P25.

John Rayfield, Jr. - CETma

 

[Baylink]

Well, John, since I approach the word "proprietary" from the standpoint of someone who's been using open source software since before we felt the need to call it that ...

What codec is DMR using, and are that codec's implementation details freely available? -- this being the sticking point that makes me not call P25 and D-Star "non-proprietary".

 

[JRayfield]

I do see your point. MOTOTRBO uses the AMBE+2 from DVSI. So 'technically', it's not totally 'open', just as any other digital format that uses DVSI chips/software would not be 'totally open'.

It would be nice if someone came up with a good, low-overhead codec that could be used instead of DVSI products. I've seen SPEEX used in some PC-based software, but I read someplace that SPEEX wouldn't work well in a radio. I need to get more details on that and find out exactly why.

John Rayfield, Jr. - CETma

 

[Baylink]

For *me*, John, the "open" question is not "are they using a proprietary codec"...

it's "does the air interface packet layout have a *field* to identify which codec is in use?"

If it does, then the *protocol* isn't proprietary.

Neither D-Star nor P25 got this right; I *think* have enough PDFs on DMR to find out if they did or not.

I would be interested about the speex thing as well; let me know if you find out anything...

 

[486dx4]

As of now its only Moto and Hytera equipment available that can do DMR. There are some proprietary things/features Moto has with their mototrbo equipment that the Hytera units do not have that I have seen so far. One is that you cannot text message between the two brands which I have personally seen. There was some word on fixing the compatibility of this in the future but right now you cannot do it. Other things (that I have not seen but heard of) that Hyteras cannot do is work with Moto's IP site connect feature - the Hytera RD982 repeater cannot connect to the XPR8300 and be a peer in the network. Also Moto's capacity plus trunking system is not compatible with Hytera. Hytera on the other hand has a "pseudo trunking" feature where if a conversation is going on with one time slot the other time slot would be used for the traffic and vice versa.

The basics of using the radios in repeater and direct mode in digital are the same though as per the standard. both have contact lists/radio IDs, can do private calls, all call, and group calls, etc. WIth a Moto IPSC system of repeaters linked over IP the hytera handheld/mobile works fine. So it does seem that the DMR standard is being followed but the manufacturers are also putting in other incompatible freatures that are not quite spelled out in the standard. It would be nice though if more of these things were implemented with compatibility in mind.

 

[joshua86]

is there any way to scan MOTOTRBO?

 

[Baylink]

So far as I know, Josh, no, no presently available scanners can scan DMR systems at this time. The x96XT's from Uniden are the most current models, and they don't speak DMR so far as I know.

Someone is working on decoding it in software; there's a thread in that forum. No voice channel yet, though.

 

[gary123]

try DSD for TRBO. Unfortunatly its linux based but i believe it works.

 

[mackiefan2004]

Hey all,
Just wanted to let you know I have put a new feed online (still pending approval) of some MotoTRBO digital trunked systems in and around Minneapolis, MN.

For no, until the feed gets approved, ANCOM MOTOTRBO MN Scanner Feed on USTREAM: .

Cheers!

 

[markallenclayton]

mototurbo

How are you scanning mototurbo? I would like to know, my local police and sheriff are using it now. I read where DSD for TRBO might work, what is that, or where do you go to get it?

 

[SCPD]

Would the built in tap (software one or whatever) for the Pro-106 work for the tap?

 

[IanWraith]

Hello

I have mentioned it elsewhere on this forum but I am working on a DMR decoder in Java (so it should run under Window , Linux and on Apple PCs) based on code from the DSD decoder. So far it doesn't decode much but for more details see here ..

https://github.com/IanWraith/DMRDecode/wiki

You can download it from here ..

https://github.com/IanWraith/DMRDecode

Click on the "Downloads" button then on "dmrdecode_b13.jar".

Regards

Ian

 

[jsharp2316]

Jim

MotoTRBO comes in several varieties. The wide area version is DMR-III compliant but at this time has a limit of six wide are sites (due to TCP/IP limitations). Single site trunking version is NOT DMR-anything.... it is LTR like (keys up every 8-10 seconds and all). Conventional is simply DMR modulation based.

Another issue is the DMR-III standard does not specify a vocoder. Members of a USA group has agreed to use the IMBE+2, remember thats the vocoder that firemen say won't work in a high noise environment. A couple of European companies are proposing an open standards "free-ware" vocoder for DMR but I don't think it will get anywhere in the USA (we seem to be too driven by the $)

 

[kg9nn]

Why people choose MotoTrbo

I know many readers of this site are hostile to MotoTrbo (at least until there's a commercially available scanner for it . I'm hoping to offset some of the negative reviews by sharing my experience as a system administrator. We have been testing a MotoTrbo system since July. Our test site is Ringo Ranger (no kidding) at 20 feet. The repeater is a Mot XPR8330, with a 100W Crescend PA, Celwave pre-selector, and Telewave duplexer. For SUs we're piloting XPR4550s with 5/8 wave antennas. The system is VHF.

Looking at the preceding paragraph, you would have low expectations, and I did. I was surprised to be have prefect portable coverage 10 miles from the site, and acceptable (but spotty) mobile coverage at 30 miles out. For comparison we used the same equipment in analog mode and had no usable signal in either situation. We sub'd a Vertex VX9000 and VX4204 with even worse results (wouldn't even open squelch). So my first point in defense of TRBO is algorithm works with a higher SNR than narrowband FM.

Then there's having two time slots; double system capacity.

Finally, we were able to deploy a full blown AVL system (web based and accessible from everyone's iStuff) with email and text messaging gateways for about $3k.

Up until we did this pilot we were ready to spend 10 times the amount for a P25 voice/data system.

TRBO met our functional requirements at a fraction of the cost of an "open" system, and beats the daylights of out analog.

I'm wondering what it's going to be like this spring when we change our production network to TRBO and turn down the pilot system. The production system is at 100 feet with a nice DB224 antenna.

Not to say the arguments presented aren't valid, but there are good reasons for businesses using TRBO and it has nothing to with hating the scanner hobbyist. Under certain conditions, I might even okay TRBO for small public safety systems.

 

[JRayfield]

A little clarification....

All of the MOTOTRBO 'varities' use the DMR protocol for the 'over-the-air' signal (Tier 2).

Connect Plus is the multi-site trunked repeater system. It is not DMR Tier 3 - it is proprietary to Motorola. Motorola engineers felt that there were some 'downsides' to the DMR Tier 3 trunking standard, from a technical standpoint, so they developed something that they feel works better.

Capacity Plus is a single-site trunked system and also uses the DMR protocol (Tier 2) for the over-the-air signal. But, the trunking 'format' is proprietary. As an interesting comparison to LTR, It does not use a 'home channel', like LTR, but uses a 'rest channel' (similar to LTR, but much better).

MOTOTRBO uses the AMBE+2 vocoder, which works quite well in a high-noise environment, if the rest ot the 'supporting' circuit and software are designed well.

John Rayfield, Jr CETma

MotoTRBO comes in several varieties. The wide area version is DMR-III compliant but at this time has a limit of six wide are sites (due to TCP/IP limitations). Single site trunking version is NOT DMR-anything.... it is LTR like (keys up every 8-10 seconds and all). Conventional is simply DMR modulation based.

Another issue is the DMR-III standard does not specify a vocoder. Members of a USA group has agreed to use the IMBE+2, remember thats the vocoder that firemen say won't work in a high noise environment. A couple of European companies are proposing an open standards "free-ware" vocoder for DMR but I don't think it will get anywhere in the USA (we seem to be too driven by the $)

 

[Baylink]

So my first point in defense of TRBO is algorithm works with a higher SNR than narrowband FM.

"lower" SNR, no?

 

[kg9nn]

"lower" SNR, no?

Mea coupa, replace higher with "worse."

 

[SCPD]

MotoTrbo CPS tutorial

I now have the MotoTrbo software.
From the main menu, I wanted watch the macromedia tutorials on a computer I do not want to install the CPS software on.
When I click on the "123" icon, it does nothing.
Anyone know if I can only view this tutorial on a computer after the CPS is installed?

 

[ff-medic]

Vertex will be releasing a DMR radio by the end of this year.
John Rayfield, Jr. - CETma

"VERTEX ( clap hands ) - - - > Goodie Goodie. Thats good news, I did not even know.

I'm a Vertex fan in case you did not know ( Yes, I know that MoneyRolla bought them out )

FF - Medic !!