MPSCS Costs vs Results?

[OldBlue]

My area LE have been with the MPSCS for a few years now and still have issues with reliability in being heard, especially when it comes to portable traffic, despite having installed two additional towers in the County at considerable expense to the local Governments.

I find it amusing that my local agency thought the system was better than sliced bread when a MSP tech and Motorola sales staff took them around with a portable testing all the area’s chronic dead spots and everything seemed to be perfect. Of course there was no mention that the portable was bouncing off a repeater in the MSP unit and wasn’t really reaching the closest tower nearly 15 miles away on its own.

Of course once the expensive switchover was made the officers had problems and were told that you may have to stand next to a window to be heard! Comforting thoughts when you are trying to fight with a suspect who is trying to take your firearm away. A few safety grievances filed and the officers needing to carry a second portable tied to the old system kept them from getting hurt.

I guess I am wondering the thoughts from other members familiar with this system and its strengths and weaknesses, is the system worth the costs? Clearly, the system was never intended to be used in an extreme urban environment where heavy portable traffic is necessary, so why was it pushed on these agencies, because once they sink the huge sums of money into the system they cannot afford to drop it.

 

[rdale]

Because large urban agencies pay large amount of mic fees annually...

 

[OsloViking1975]

Unfortunately systems are going to have their flaws. I believe MPSCS has worked fairly well I think. I guess there well always be deadspots possibly do to many tree coverings etc.. I myself am only about 2 or 3miles from one of the towers here in Macomb county. I did hear on MSP though today the dispatcher had to have the officer repeat because he was garbled at first then next transmission was fine. This was in Monroe County. If counties decide to buy the top of line radio systems there is no guarantee it will work properly as some claim to be.

 

[RayAir]

I feel many agencies were or would have been better off if they just keep their old systems. Unfortunately many are lulled by salespeople into buying the "latest" technology or pressured into going "digital". But the radio manufacturers have to stay in business by selling new systems that aren't needed in most cases or turn out to be poor performers when they were promised the world by the sales team.

 

[bline]

As a scanner listener I sure do miss the analog days. Easy programming and better audio...

 

[OldBlue]

Unfortunately systems are going to have their flaws. I believe MPSCS has worked fairly well I think. I guess there well always be deadspots possibly do to many tree coverings etc.. I myself am only about 2 or 3miles from one of the towers here in Macomb county. I did hear on MSP though today the dispatcher had to have the officer repeat because he was garbled at first then next transmission was fine. This was in Monroe County. If counties decide to buy the top of line radio systems there is no guarantee it will work properly as some claim to be.

In my area that garbled transmission is call “you went digital” and you hear dispatchers or units say it several times a shift. Not as bad as it was when they first switched over, but then they have installed two additional towers at extreme cost to cure the problem. Not fully there yet.

 

[OsloViking1975]

Wow yeah that is expensive

 

[OldBlue]

Wow yeah that is expensive

You bet it is! Originally, the area towers were Adams Park and Plainwell. The Plainwell site is a busy one as it is used for Allegan, Barry and whomever else happens to be in range so many times local units showed they were reaching the Leonidas site, which is too long range for portables.

 

[Zippy734]

As a scanner listener I sure do miss the analog days. Easy programming and better audio...

Southfield PD is still analog and sound great. 424.325

 

[i5adam8]

It's just my personnel opinion but it seems that the majority of problems associated with MPSCS are due to the portables digital signal being lost or "garbled". Maybe a remedy to this problem for the larger urban areas would be to somehow modify this system for certain talkgroups to be able to operate in non-digital analog mode. Now I don't know how practical this would be or even if it would be possible to do this on certain talkgroups only,but it's just a thought....

 

[rdale]

It's not possible. MPSCS is digital-only.

 

[EC-7]

“you went digital”

I think that Motorola should make that their new tagline. That is a phrase that was made up exclusively due to the problems of their new digital system. Cell phones are digital and you rarely have that problem, but yes, they are are different digital format.

Back in analog days, even if the signal faded, most of the time you could still make out what they were saying.
Dumping millions of $$ into new systems and towers isnt ever going to fix the problem. Getting Moto out of bed with the Govt agencies and getting REAL radio techs in, is the only thing that will work.

 

[drdispatch]

Paying the mic fees (about $200 per radio per year) vs maintaining your old, outdated, not-ready-for-narrowbanding system, which requires Radar O'Reilly to get parts for, makes the MPSCS seem like a more cost-effective choice. That said, if someone tells you that a radio system has no dead spots, that someone is probably a salesman. Sure there are dead spots on the MPSCS; tons of 'em. But what you are paying for with the system is the interoperability, the advanced features, and the "robustness" (redundancy) that comes with it. Will you ever need to stand in the parking lot of Cabela's in Dundee with your portable & talk to somebody else on a portable in Ishpeming? Probably not. But a system that advanced, with that kind of capability, is a good thing to have when (not if) the stuff hits the fan.

Show me a radio system that has NO dead spots - 100% PORTABLE coverage, and...well, how does that Willie Wonka song go? "Come with me, & you'll be...."

 

[rdale]

...and you're also paying for a system that can't be expanded anymore... Putting several agencies at a standstill for their expansion plans because they ran out of IDs all of the sudden. You don't get that sort of service with a county-based advanced, interoperable system.

 

[a29zuk]

I always wondered if these simulcast systems are just a money grab. Are they really needed? When the Genesee Co. simulcast first was installed many officers complained about deadspots on their portables. After about a year the deadspot complaints stopped. I only hear "you went digital" once in a great while now. Eventually, by accident, as I programmed my scanner I noticed most of Genesee Co. ID's were on the Holly tower except for the northern part of the county. But the northern county ID's are on the Columbiaville tower. Was this the fix for the simulcast system? Would two non-simulcast towers in metropoliton areas be all that is needed? I know system specific radios are better suited for receiving signals from the simulcast but it is unlistenable at my residence(from the multi-path) so I just use the Columbiaville and Holly towers.

 

[drdispatch]

...and you're also paying for a system that can't be expanded anymore... Putting several agencies at a standstill for their expansion plans because they ran out of IDs all of the sudden. You don't get that sort of service with a county-based advanced, interoperable system.

Good point. Wonder how they're gonna remedy that. Make the ID's longer?

 

[rdale]

Money. Motorola wants a LOT of cash (which the state doesn't have, but I don't doubt somehow will find) to upgrade the controllers to handle more radio IDs.

 

[OsloViking1975]

southfield pd is still analog and sound great. 424.325

ct:131.8

 

[mikey60]

Good point. Wonder how they're gonna remedy that. Make the ID's longer?

Add more entries into the system's Radio ID database. There are over 16 million possible radio ID combinations on a P25 control channel, but the database in the current version of the system software can only hold 65,000, thus the need to upgrade.

Mike

 

[bigbluemsp]

Encrypted Digital signals are weaker signals which create more gaps in coverage.