Multiple DMR IDs for C+ and Brandmeister?

[KK6ZNS]

Hi Everyone, happy holidays.

I am a ham (KK6ZNS) new to DMR. I'm also a Motorola snob. As such, I am currently setting up a Connect Plus system with 3x DMR repeaters, one for my home, one for my vacation home, and one for another site--as implied, each repeater is linked via the internet and creates a private digital network that all of my family radios can seamlessly roam on--works great. My family uses XPR 7550e, XPR 5550e, and SL7550e radios. Each of my family members has only one radio, I personally have 3x (portable, mobile, and another portable). As I am a ham user, I applied for and received a DMR Radio ID from radioid.net, and one of my DMR radios uses this 7 digit number as my radio ID and therefore this one radio works with my private Connect Plus network and also with the Brandmeister network (which I like to use, but no other family members do, ...yet).

What I want to do is to have my other DMR radios that I personally use (a mobile for my car, and another handheld for on the boat) also work with my Connect Plus network and Brandmeister. However, I would need 3x unique radio IDs, and radioid.net only gives out one DMR ID per callsign (because the USA DMR ID list is 77% full, they're restricting each person to 1 ID they told me).

So, my question is this: is there a work around (a legal, polite work around) to this problem? I have 3 DMR radios that I want on my own Connect Plus network AND also on the Brandmeister network. I can't use the same radio ID on each of the radios because they wouldn't work with the private Connect Plus network (but using the same DMR radio ID on multiple radios works for the Brandmeister network). The Motorola radios can only work with a single Radio ID (I know that some other brands support multiple IDs and this would solve my problem--however, I'm a motorola snob as mentioned, and I'm sticking with the Moto hardware I already have). Any thoughts? Thank you all,

Mark

 

[Thunderknight]

Did you explain your situation to the radioid folks and ask for an exception? Might be worth trying.

 

[KK6ZNS]

I did, but no response yet (holidays Im sure are slowing down responses). I also dont want to hog scarce DMR id's from other people, if possible

 

[N4KVE]

Delete.

 

[bill4long]

[delete]

 

[bill4long]

I can't use the same radio ID on each of the radios because they wouldn't work with the private Connect Plus network

I'm curious why that is.

 

[KK6ZNS]

I'm curious why that is.

Because a C+ network is a closed, private network (that I set up) which links a RID to an allowed (authorized) radio serial number. So, only those radios that I have a S/N and a RID for (and an encryption key) can access my C+ network. Each radio is a unique 'user' so can't share IDs

 

[bill4long]

I just read some your other posts on other threads. Curious how you're going to end up using this system. I.e, what radio service.

DMR is not legal for GMRS.

LMR is not legal for a personal family system, unless you can somehow justify its use as part of your business.

Encryption not legal on ham radio.

Seems like your two legal options are

A) your family members get ham licenses, then you could legally have a closed DMR system without encryption.

B) use your system on GMRS and run analog. (Closed, linked repeaters are legal.)

 

[mikewazowski]

I'm just impressed that the OP can afford the repeaters, infrastructure and 15k+ controllers for a CON+ network all for personal use.

 

[KK6ZNS]

I just read some your other posts on other threads. Curious how you're going to end up using this system. I.e, what radio service.

DMR is not legal for GMRS.

LMR is not legal for a personal family system, unless you can somehow justify its use as part of your business.

Encryption not legal on ham radio.

Seems like your two legal options are

A) your family members get ham licenses, then you could legally have a closed DMR system without encryption.

B) use your system on GMRS and run analog. (Closed, linked repeaters are legal.)

Hi Bill,

Thank you for that listing--very helpful, and I've saved it. It's a great reminder of what's allowed as a ham user and what's not. I am a stickler for doing things correctly & legally, so this is very meaningful. Thank you again.

To answer your question (objectives/purpose): I have two purposes for my gear. (1) as a ham and volunteer for various agencies (mostly emergency, e.g. SAR), I want to continue to leverage and exploit all allowed usages as a ham operator. I am also a sailor and a pilot so having cross functional radios (e.g. VHF marine, etc.) is important to me too (2) private networks for myself--To elaborate, I have two sites (two homes) in two different locations. One of the homes is in a location with no cell service. So, having both locations (both sites) set up with a linked repeater gives us (my family) comms access regardless of who-is-where (as long as they are within range of my repeaters). Further, I have family in asia and family in europe and I would like to give them remote access to our home radio network (which I can do with the wave system from motorola: download an iOS/Android app and I can give you VOIP access through a gateway that I have at my repeater). For all of this, I want as much privacy as possible (hence digital channels, with encryption). For me (as a licensed operator) I want my own hardware to have access to my home network (#2 above) as well as whatever else I do with the radios (e.g. ham stuff). So that is objective. I do also own a company and we have two sites there that we are also setting up with a digital private commercial network. So that is where I also want access to via radio, from my home, and it is this functional bridge that I believe allows me to legally extend my commercial 2-site system to a 4-site system (where the two additional sites are my home 1 and home 2.

Eventually all my family members will be licensed operators, but that is an aspiration that still requires some selling

Let me know if that makes sense?

KK6ZNS, Mark

 

[Floridarailfanning]

I'm just impressed that the OP can afford the repeaters, infrastructure and 15k+ controllers for a CON+ network all for personal use.

Looks like a colossal waste of money to me. . .

Cap+ or IPSC would be fine for this use case and could easily support 4 future sites.

I like your idea but as I said on your other thread I don't think there is a way to do it legally. Two options seem viable. 1) get everyone licensed for Ham, then setup RAS but no encryption. 2) Build out the system as an SMR and lease air time to Part 90 eligible users. This would give you a legitimate need for the frequencies and you could give your family an encrypted TG on the system.

I would avoid Connect Plus though. Its EOL and support will be fading over the next several years, plus it is very overbuilt for what you would need. IMO Capacity Plus makes a lot more sense.

 

[KK6ZNS]

What's a waste to you is a hobby or project of great pride and skill to me. To each their own.

There is a third function/objective I have that I forgot to mention: I'd like to open up my repeaters for public use (one the other timeslot). I'd likely have it be a ham analog, or, connect to the Brandmeister network. Serving the public (other hams) in some useful way is something I'd always like to do

 

[Floridarailfanning]

What's a waste to you is a hobby or project of great pride and skill to me. To each their own.

I totally get that, and I respect your idea. Just keep in mind that Con+ is dead in Motorola's eyes and other TRBO offerings make better sense for your usage.

 

[mikewazowski]

I'd like to open up my repeaters for public use (one the other timeslot). I'd likely have it be a ham analog, or, connect to the Brandmeister network. Serving the public (other hams) in some useful way is something I'd always like to do

I’m totally confused.

You say you’re setting up a Connect Plus network yet you want to open up the second timeslot for connection to BM or as an analog channel??

I think you need to do a lot more reading as neither one of those are possible with a CON+ network, CAP+ or even an IPSC network.

 

[KK6ZNS]

I totally get that, and I respect your idea. Just keep in mind that Con+ is dead in Motorola's eyes and other TRBO offerings make better sense for your usage.

Appreciate that; may indeed go to the other TRBO offerings (I'm still in the experiment-to-learn-everything mode)

Happy holidays

 

[KK6ZNS]

I’m totally confused.

You say you’re setting up a Connect Plus network yet you want to open up the second timeslot for connection to BM or as an analog channel??

I think you need to do a lot more reading as neither one of those are possible with a CON+ network, CAP+ or even an IPSC network.

There are ways to set up a single repeater for dual use, or, having two repeaters for dual uses. My only point was that I want two things: (1) my own private network, and (2) support hams & networks in any way that I can. Maybe thats expanding the BM network, perhaps it will be something else. Still learning, but committed to those two objectives (my own, and, helping/providing for others)

 

[mikewazowski]

Yes most certainly but putting any Motorola repeater into dual use mode excludes them from being used for any sort of Tier 3, CON+, CAP+ or IPSC networking. That’s the way they’re designed and that’s not going to change.

You could go with an MMDVM board which will allow networking to BM and analog but that’s it. No Tier 3, CON+, CAP+ or IPSC networking.

I think you need to do a lot more reading.

 

[alcahuete]

You're in WAY over your head on this project, I'm afraid. Good on you for trying and experimenting for sure! But the whole thing screams one big illegal project. It's very simple if you're using ham radio. But you say your family isn't licensed. Now you want to set it up for business use as well, and bridge the two systems together. It doesn't work that way. It's illegal. You can't use the same repeater system for business and ham, or bridge them together like you want to do. You can't link Part 90 and ham repeaters together. You can't use encryption on ham radio, etc.

For the business side, you need to set up a separate system. That requires a Part 90 license (not your ham license) and frequency coordination for every single repeater site. I'm assuming that has already been accomplished, but who knows?

Linking Mototrbo repeaters together is an incredibly simple endeavor. That's one thing they actually made very easy. But you're really overthinking this project with Connect Plus, Capacity Plus, etc.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Linking Mototrbo repeaters together is an incredibly simple endeavor. That's one thing they actually made very easy. But you're really overthinking this project with Connect Plus, Capacity Plus, etc.

Cap+ is not over thinking. It doesn't use a control channel, so you actually get 2 talk paths per RF channel. You also dynamically assigned time slots. It is significantly easier to program than IPSC.

 

[alcahuete]

Cap+ is not over thinking. It doesn't use a control channel, so you actually get 2 talk paths per RF channel. You also dynamically assigned time slots. It is significantly easier to program than IPSC.

Yes, I know how CAP+ works. But you get two talk paths regardless. CAP+ doesn't change that. Why would you ever need dynamically assigned time slots in a system that only his family will use? If he does actually open some of the repeater system for public use, he has now essentially limited the audience to those with Motorola radios. Might be good, might not. Just depends on how you want to run your system.

For business use? Sure. I would CAP+ all day, and twice on Tuesday.

Either way, this all has illegal written all over it...