My NV Whirlwind Tour

[Dave_D]

Hi all,

I participated in the Silver State Classic Challenge in Ely this past weekend (took third in 110 MPH class) and logged some radio activity along the way. Drove a nice big circle through the state - Route 50 (Fallon, Austin, Eureka, Ely), Route 318 (Lund, Hiko, Ash Springs), Route 375 (Rachel), Route 6 (Tonopah), Route 95 (Mina, Hawthorne). Here's what I found:

1. North of Hawthorne, data/digital on 141.4750. No RR listing. No FCC listing in NV.
2. FWIW, verified NHP mobile extender use on 154.92 in Tonopah.
3. Discovered NSRS Control Channel, 856.9375, just north of Warm Springs. [Can't miss the tower.] FCC license verifies.
4. Route 50, 10 miles west of Ely, frequency 169.775 carries what sounds like police communications, but is listed in RR as Bureau of Land Management, Ely, Minden and Carson. No FCC license for this frequency in NV. [?!]
5. Route 50, 5 miles west of Eureka, frequency 155.07, duplex (or repeater) carries police communications. RR lists this and relevant frequencies but description is vague. FCC licensee reads "Attention: Sheriff." Is this sufficient to tweak RR listings for those freqs showing in FCC license?
6. Route 50, Lander County, Discovered Control Channel 855.2375. No RR listing. FCC shows statewide mobile. [?!] Maybe not a control channel? Maybe digital mobile radio / data terminal?
7. Carson City / Gardnerville, 173.3875, data/digital. No RR listing. No FCC license.
8. Discovered NSRS Control Channel, 866.05 in Gardnerville, Douglas County. FCC license verifies.

Any comments? I'm still quite the newb at analyzing these things and appreciate any verifications or guidance, especially before submitting change requests to RR.

Dave

 

[northzone]

Items 1,4, &7, FCC does not license federal government and military frequencies.

 

[TOUGHLIFE]

141.475 is most likely the Hawthorne Army Ammunition Plant.

 

[joen7xxx]

Eureka County Sheriff's primary frequency is output on 155.07 on several repeaters from Carlin south to Eureka.

 

[Dave_D]

So, if 155.07 is a repeater, what is the "primary" Sheriff's frequency?

Of those displayed in RR for Eureka County, WSL505 is the only FCC license addressed to "ATTN: SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT" and shows additional base and mobile frequencies as yet unlisted in RR:

• 155.475
• 155.655
• 155.79

If 155.07 is a repeater, then wouldn't one of these other frequencies serve as the feeder? And why does the FCC license show 75 mobile radios on 155.07? Can one operate a mobile radio on the same frequency as a repeater?

And here's another thing I don't get: According to Google Earth, these other Eureka frequencies (Eureka County 4 through 7) are all located at what appears to be a shack in a gulch. [Not a good place for a tower.]

• 155.745
• 156.24
• 158.865
• 163.25

The first three are addressed to the "Eureka County Road Department." [How many 'roads' channels does a town of this size really need?] The fourth is addressed to the "Eureka Courthouse" but maps to the same 'roads' shack. ???

No doubt, my sleuthing skills need a little help.... Any is appreciated.

Dave

 

[SCPD]

First post.

#1 The FCC does not license or regulate the radio systems of federal agencies. The NTIA (National Telecommunications and Information Administration) does. This applies to items #4 and 7 as well. They use the same call sign format as the FCC and coordinate with them so that they don't duplicate call signs, but the similarity does not mean you can access NTIA "license" data. It was classified by executive order by President Reagan in the early 1980's.

#4 The BLM has law enforcement rangers and that is probably what you heard.

#7 What type of traffic did you hear? This would be one of the federal government's new narrow band frequencies.

Second post.

155.475 is called NALEMARS or National Law Enforcement Mutual Aid Radio System.

What you are calling the feeder is actually called the repeater input frequency. Almost all licenses for repeater systems include mobile licenses on both the input and output frequencies. Unit to unit, "direct", or car to car traffic is carried out on the output frequency so traffic between two units does not necessarily have to be by other units over a wide area. Some systems are set up so that the dispatcher does not hear the output of the repeater, only the input. In that way the dispatcher does not have to hear the car to car or tactical traffic. It also enables units to still receive the dispatcher or anyone else using a repeater while having the radio switched to the direct or car to car channel.

Elko County has a license for 155.655 and the Radio Reference database show this as a car to car frequency for them. It is very common for adjacent jurisdictions to have licenses for each others radio systems. Additionally this frequency is licensed for a base station on top of Prospect Peak and it is likely a remote base, linked to dispatch by a phone line or microwave (although the county does not have any microwave frequencies licensed to it) and they use this to talk with Elko County. This is a guess and since they probably use the phone more often than this link, it would require residency in either county and within receiving range of Prospect Peak to verify this.

155.790 is licensed for a fixed station (the FX1) license class and for 75 mobile units. I suspect that 155.790 is the input frequency for 155.070.

Mistakes are very common when it comes to the listed lat and long on FCC licenses. You can't rely on what you found for a Eureka County license location and then pinpoint it using Goggle Earth or topographic mapping programs. Some of the older licenses were applied for before computer software was available to get lat and long locations of peaks, buildings, and tower locations. Using a paper topo map to determine location was not straight forward when obtaining a location down to the second (degree, minute, second) as required by the FCC. This process is very easy to make a mistake on.

The last group of four frequencies you listed are licensed in the "PW" Radio Service. This might seem like it stands for public works but it stands for "public safety pool." Gone are the days when a state or local government had to license its law enforcement on one group of frequencies, its fire services on another, and its road departments on another. I can't figure out the possible uses of 163.250 but the other three might be used for fire, road department (which I suspect is the 156.240 frequency as it was in the old public works radio service), school busses, or EMS.

That is all the help I can give you from here. I don't have much local knowledge of northeast Nevada, however, I've done a fair share of license research and after awhile you gain the ability to read between the lines of the license data.

 

[TOUGHLIFE]

155.655

155.655 is a mutual aid frequency used by most law enforcement VHF entities in Nevada. You will find this frequency in almost every NHP vehicle that has an old VHF radio in addition to the 800 MHz trunking radios. When traveling about in Nevada it is a good frequency to keep in a scanning program along with the 155.475 MHz.

 

[Dave_D]

#7 What type of traffic did you hear? This would be one of the federal government's new narrow band frequencies.

I only heard the control channel buzz. "Close Call" picked 'er up.

What you are calling the feeder is actually called the repeater input frequency. Almost all licenses for repeater systems include mobile licenses on both the input and output frequencies. Unit to unit, "direct", or car to car traffic is carried out on the output frequency so traffic between two units does not necessarily have to be by other units over a wide area. Some systems are set up so that the dispatcher does not hear the output of the repeater, only the input. In that way the dispatcher does not have to hear the car to car or tactical traffic. It also enables units to still receive the dispatcher or anyone else using a repeater while having the radio switched to the direct or car to car channel.

Aha!!! I didn't realize that a mobile radio could transmit on the repeater's output frequency without creating havoc. This changes everything! I've been segregating mobile frequencies (banking or giving audible alerts) for the purposes of determining "close" traffic, but if folks are 'repurposing' the repeater frequency for local transmissions, then there's no determining one from the other. Rats.

I presume that mobile radios in 800 MHz trunked systems don't do this, being that their input frequencies are preassigned.

That is all the help I can give you from here. I don't have much local knowledge of northeast Nevada, however, I've done a fair share of license research and after awhile you gain the ability to read between the lines of the license data.

This is all great info! I wish you or somebody with equivalent experience would teach a class or write a book, "Radio Forensics 101." You could start by describing each of the station class codes and what they 'really' mean in the wild. I enjoy this sleuthing but am not very good at it yet. A primer would be awesome.

Anyhoo, thank you for the sage advice.

 

[SCPD]

Conventional 800 MHz system radios can switch to direct also. Obviously trunked systems cannot. Some of the conventional radios will have the "direct", or car to car capability programmed into another channel. Some years back there were 800 MHz radios that just had a "direct" button, thus saving a channel of memory. I'm not up on the latest radios, 800 MHz or otherwise, other than ham radios so I can't tell you if a direct button is built into them.

The Police Call nine volume frequency directory set had a radio basics section at the front of each volume. It was very concise, giving the scanner listener just enough information to figure the basic principles that they needed to know. If you can find a copy of Police Call, don't worry about the date of publication, buy it for the introduction. Otherwise there is a lot of good information on the Wiki site you can link on at the top of the page.

Good luck!

 

[joen7xxx]

The way repeaters work is there is an input and output frequency. They are different. Control base stations and mobiles usually transmit on the input which is repeated on the output, greatly extending their range. In large geographic areas, the dispatch may have a high level remote base to access the different mountain top repeaters, or they me just be linked together so when one come up, they all do.

Also, in the rural counties the Sheriff's frequency is used by just about everyone. In Eureka, the SO, volunteer fire departments, ambulances, NDF and others use the same frequency, NDF uses this in addition to their system for coordination and vice versa. The Sheriff, ambulances etc can and do talk on the NDF system. We even have radios authorized at the Red Cross on these freqiuencies for coordination during disasters. That's why there may be so many units on the mobile license.

Hope this helps...

Joe

 

[SCPD]

In Alpine County, California the school buses were on the sheriff's department frequency until a few years ago. At one time the road department was also. Small counties already have interoperability!