New Haven, IN - Big bill looming in towns

[Thunderbolt]

NEW HAVEN, Ind. -- New Haven is facing a double hit to its budget over the next two years as changes in radio technology and federal mandates force the city to replace most of its radio equipment used by police, firefighters and paramedics.

Big bill looming in towns | The Journal Gazette | Fort Wayne, IN

 

[Citywide173]

"New" mandate? It seems that only one of the agencies in the article has been slowly purchasing narrowband capable radios over time to minimize the impact. Now that the FCC isn't budging on the compliance date, those places that hedged their bets on an extension are crying. There's no question they knew about it and have had time to prepare......no sympathy here.

 

[GTO_04]

At least a few fire departments realize the benefits, and much lower cost, of staying with the VHF system, even after they convert to narrowband equipment.

GTO_04

 

[jackj]

The older radios can be converted to the new narrow-band standards, if the manufactures make the kits available. I was working in 2-way repair when the original narrow-band took place, from 15 Khz to 5 Khz. The manufactures made narrow-band conversion kits for almost all of their past production. The only ones that couldn't be converted were radios that couldn't meet the new frequency stability requirements, mostly UHF radios that used crystal ovens. It's a fairly simple matter to replace the chokes and capacitors used in the pre- and de-emphasis circuits as well as the IF filters in the receivers. There might be other reasons why a transmitter can't meet the new requirements such as reduced spurious emissions, etc.

 

[n5ims]

Why does all of the complaining about the narrowband deadline by all of these agencies remind me of a child being told before dinner is started that they must clean up their toys by dinner time. The kids, of course, continue to play as usual. Mom walks by several times while preparing dinner and reminds the kids that the toys must get picked up and the kids keep playing. Finally dinner is ready and now the kids finally realize that they should've stopped playing and used the time to pick up their toys, but now they're in trouble. Swap the FCC for the mom and the agencies for the kids, and that's what we have. Just like the kids, the agencies will complain to all who'll listen that "they weren't given enough time" or "we weren't told we needed to do anything".

 

[ncarpenter]

"But reducing the range of frequencies also is a way to push public safety agencies to use the digital 800-megahertz system, said Don Patnoude, president of the Allen County Fire Chief’s Association.

“The big issue is: How long will the FCC allow us to remain on the VHF system?” Patnoude said."

Pretty bias comment there, Patnoude. What proof have you of this? What's big brother's special interest in 800MHz, as you claim? Ignorance is bliss for some people I guess.

I'm sure someone will comment on how I'm wrong.

 

[SWFD51]

Since I’m the one who made the comment in the article, I’ll respond. Like many areas of the country, our county is migrating over to the 800 system. Currently, the county fire departments are the last to make a complete transition. Our department operates both VHF and 800 systems.

Prior to making our investment into the 800 system, we consulted with various local radio professionals in regards to the advantages to migrating to 800. Every single person we talked with stated that eventually the FCC would like all public safety agencies to be on the 800 system.

My profession is firefighting. I don’t profess to be a professional in the communications business. I do however; rely on those in that profession to help me make informed decisions.
The issue here locally is do we invest heavily into our VHF system if it only has a short life span in the public safety realm? Or, do we push to convert completely over to the 800 system?

There are pros and cons to either system. I just want the best system for my personnel and our citizens.
I don’t believe that anything I stated in the article is bias or ignorant.

 

[jackj]

From what I have heard and read, I think you are right about the limited life span of your existing VHF system. The FCC as well as the various state EMA want all emergency responders to be able to talk to each other directly without cross-patching systems or relaying messages. Your department will have to shift to the new system some day but money does enter into the picture, new 800 MHz trunking systems and compatible radios are expensive.

You might be able to buy some time. As I stated earlier, unless there is another reason why your transmitters can't meet the new specs, they can be narrow-banded. But only if the manufacturer has designed and gotten approval from the FCC for the needed mod kits. The manufacturers may use these new requirements to force existing customers to buy new radios rather than supporting their older equipment. In any case, go over your maintenance records and decide if it makes economical sense to invest more money in your old radios.

 

[Viper43]

Of course your going to believe the SALES pitch..... the ONLY one who cares if you go to 800Mhz are the ones selling YOU the line, think about it, 800Mhz cost more, salesman makes more on HIS commision if sells you a $20mil 800Mhz system over a $500,000 VHF. The FCC could care less whether you go with VHF or 800Mhz so don't blame it on the FCC when the blame lays squarely on the companies and their sales requirements and the salesmen who are trained to lie with a straight face and make YOU believe what they want you to believe.
I recently heard a sales pitch fo a place looking into going digital on VHF due to terrain but they wanted the ability to be P25 compatable with surounding counties as well. One of the things this salesman tried to feed these folks was that what they wanted to do couldn't be done with VHF, or anything BUT 700/800Mhz. He actually told them there was no way to make the P25 VHF and 800Mhz compatble.....I guess he never heard of the backbone IP connection and I asked him just that and he stood there in front of us and said it couldn't be done, even after I showed him numerous examples of it having been done. He was obviously irritated at my questions and comments, even telling one of the bigwigs that I knew nothing. Funny part was it was THAT bigwig who asked me to be there! Bottom line is, this clown had one thing in mind, selling what would have been a $150 million dollar 800Mhz system instead of a $30 million dollar VHF system. All he cares about at the end of the deal is the $$ on HIS check, not what is really best for the situation or taxpayers or those he is trying to con into buying the 800Mhz system.

V

Since I’m the one who made the comment in the article, I’ll respond. Like many areas of the country, our county is migrating over to the 800 system. Currently, the county fire departments are the last to make a complete transition. Our department operates both VHF and 800 systems.

Prior to making our investment into the 800 system, we consulted with various local radio professionals in regards to the advantages to migrating to 800. Every single person we talked with stated that eventually the FCC would like all public safety agencies to be on the 800 system.

My profession is firefighting. I don’t profess to be a professional in the communications business. I do however; rely on those in that profession to help me make informed decisions.
The issue here locally is do we invest heavily into our VHF system if it only has a short life span in the public safety realm? Or, do we push to convert completely over to the 800 system?

There are pros and cons to either system. I just want the best system for my personnel and our citizens.
I don’t believe that anything I stated in the article is bias or ignorant.

 

[SWFD51]

I'd rather be "ignorant and living in bliss" than, "arrogant and being an ass".

 

[Citywide173]

All you have to do is look at the Metro-Boston area. The Feds dumped tons of DHS money into putting everyone on UHF for interoperability.....If they wanted everyone on 800, they would have pushed for a new system like the Rhode Island Statewide system.

VHF and UHF public safety frequencies aren't going anywhere.