New P25 Site 00B on the air

[scanlist]

Caught this while searching around this evening. At the time of this post it was in site trunking mode. ULS shows the CC freq 853.725 assigned to Denver under license KNNR200.

FileVersion:6
-TowerInfo
#This section is here for information only. With the exception
#of the Call Sign(s), This data is not Read back into the program at all.
System ID : 00B
System Name :
WACN : 46FE7
Tower Number (Decimal): 606
Tower Number (Hex) : T0606
Tower Description : (null)
Control Capabilities : Data,Voice,Registration
Call Sign(s) :
Timestamp : Tue Jul 13 20:22:51 2010

-Tables
#Format: Table ID,Base Freq,Spacing,Input Offset,Assumed/Confirmed,BandWidth,Slots
00,851.00000,0.01250,-45.00000,"Confirmed",0.00625,1

-Frequencies
#Format: Channel,Usage,Frequency(/Slot),Input Frequency(/Slot),Hit Count
"00-0218","c",853.72500,808.72500,0

 

[datainmotion]

Interrrrrresting (in my best Artie Johnson voice). Do we suppose this has any correlation to the Harris P25 sys in Lakewood?

 

[greenthumb]

I would say no since it has a different system ID and WACN. Good catch though, i'll add it to the database under a generic Denver name.

 

[datainmotion]

I should have clarified - what I meant was now we are seeing another P25 system pop-up under license to an existing Harris user. Would it be safe to assume that this may be another Harris P25?

 

[scanlist]

I would say yes. CC has moved to 853.8625 this evening and is the rebanded equivalent of 868.8625 which was part of their old EDACS data only site.

Interesting move if Sprint/Nextel paid the rebanding costs to upgrade this site from EDACS to P25.

 

[greenthumb]

I agree, Phil. The control channel sounds much like the Lakewood Harris system and it acts like it too (no alternate control channels broadcast, no FCC ID, etc.).

 

[Ryfly]

I'm not able to pick this up, anyone know where the location is of this tower?

 

[greenthumb]

Mt. Morrison, it seems. Check the database for all frequencies being used since it appears that any one of them can be the control channel.

 

[scanlist]

Follow the roving control channel

CC is on 852.3750 this evening.

CC appears to move once every 24 hours.

 

[greenthumb]

It's doing it more often than that.

But no need to talk about it every time the cc changes (yawn), all of the frequencies are in the database and if they're all programmed in, nothing will be missed.

 

[Ryfly]

It's doing it more often than that.

But no need to talk about it every time the cc changes (yawn), all of the frequencies are in the database and if they're all programmed in, nothing will be missed.

Ok cool, found it, it does seem to change every few hours.

So now with this new site, and more curious how it is licensed to Denver, what agencies do you think will be using it? Giving that Denver PD just updated to ESK, are they now going to update to P25? Seems like odd timing especially with the budget deficit etc for anything to be switching.

 

[scanlist]

But no need to talk about it every time the cc changes

Ryfly could not find it so I posted the current freq at the time to assist him.

all of the frequencies are in the database and if they're all programmed in, nothing will be missed

So far one freq did not match rebanding from the prior system. With all the frequencies assigned to KNNR200 they could throw in some surprises.

 

[greenthumb]

So now with this new site, and more curious how it is licensed to Denver, what agencies do you think will be using it? Giving that Denver PD just updated to ESK, are they now going to update to P25? Seems like odd timing especially with the budget deficit etc for anything to be switching.

I'm not sure who is going to end up using this from Denver, maybe someone else on here knows. It's an interesting development though.

 

[n0doz]

Probably some sort of interop setup.

 

[abqscan]

I heard a rumor that Denver wants to go P25... Why you might ask? Federal grants are given to support P25.

 

[n0doz]

I'd have to give a big NO WAY to that one,Erik.

 

[scanlist]

Just having the P25 site on the air can open the door for grant funds. Since all high end radios made by M/A-Com Tyco are P25 capable via a firmware flash all that needs to be done is add it to grant bought equipment. Even if they are only used on the PS ESK system.

Long term Harris will end support for EDACS. They were after the tyco customer portfolio (except for the state of New York) when tyco sold the radio division. P25 and radio equipment for the feds are their bread and butter.

 

[n0doz]

The key is "high-end." Not really a lot of that in the inventory. Plus, grants are seldom 100%, and with a projected $100 million (so far) shortfall in the city's revenue forecast for 2011, a new radio system is waaaay down the list in priorities right now. Rumors: no new equipment or vehicles, fire stations closing, city services severely curtailed next year, new fees and taxes, all maintenance budgets cut at least in half, and pay reductions beyond the furlough days implemented the last couple of years. Deals made with employee groups in the last several years appear to limit the city's options, which puts even more pressure on the departments to cut facilities and limit services to save money. Finally, if the projections for the fall elections hold up, there won't be the spendaholic grants-for-everything atmosphere in DC any more, so printing money to support nice-to-have but unnecessary upgrades to perfectly good infrastructure will finally go by the wayside.
Bottom line: if the city is struggling to make payroll, will they dump an already paid for radio system with known costs for maintenance for a "free" new system that will carry unknown requirements for implementation and upkeep? What about the investment in the old system? I know for a fact that the city is very big on what it's invested in infrastructure of all kinds, as these things are considered in the balance sheet. Do you really think they'll sell at a loss - or simply write off - a multi-million dollar item just to replace it with something else that does the same thing? Do you think our politicians are willing to commit that kind of political suicide?
As I said above: NO WAY.

 

[scanlist]

I was not implying the city was scrapping the ESK system at all. Just the fact that having that P25 site on the air opens the door for grant money for replacement gear even if it's only used on the ESK system.

And you can bet a certain body part that the city will accept federal grant funds if they are handed to them.

 

[Russell]

From the info in the original post, the zone/site numbering scheme (zone 6, site 6) indicates this is an MACOM/Harris P25 system. A similar system recently online in the Austin/San Antonio area is configured the same way, primarily for InterOp. Assuming Harris does the same thing in Denver, they'll use it to allow P25 users direct access to the Denver EDACS. Most likely using talkgroup patches and several other P25 'features'. The scheme adds a 'region' code (say 303) to the beginning of the radio id. Radio 12345 on the EDACS side appears as 30312345 on the P25 side.

Check out, San Antonio Urban Area Initiative Overlay (SAUA) Trunking System, Austin/San Antonio, Texas. As said in other posts, it adds P25 to the MACOM/Harris system and opens the interoperability door (and to the P25 grant money). San Antonio and a wider area networked system is EDACS while the rest of Texas is P25, Moto or conventional. That said, the system seems to work very well, so far. It's not completely live, yet, but operation is robust and seamless.

Another system at D/FW Airport links their EDACS ProVoice and analog system to a MACOM P25 site and an OpenSky site. Cross system testing has occurred. Keep yours ears open at DIA for a similar set up.