NMO mounts & newer vehicles

[natedawg1604]

So I guess this question itself demonstrates that I am possibly a little too obsessed with radios. But regardless my current vehicle broke down and I'm looking at getting some type of small SUV, possibly the Subaru outback, or maybe a pickup. My current vehicle (an older saturn) has 3 NMO mounts on the roof, which I installed myself. They've always worked fabulous. But, I remember reading somewhere that design constraints of certain newer vehicles (i.e. side airbags and/or other wiring) make it very difficult if not impossible to drop the headliner, install NMO mounts, route the coax to the proper spot etc.

So my question is, are there any vehicles I should avoid buying if I want to install say 2-4 NMO mounts on the roof and mount numerous radios/scanners inside the vehicle (maybe for HF, VHF/UHF and 700/800 scanning)? I'm open to taking my vehicle to a radio shop to install the NMO mounts & route the coax, although if it would cost many thousands of dollars I'd be inclined to want to do it myself. Any input you have would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

You can still install an NMO mount even with side airbags. The wiring for the dome lights will give you a clue to routing.

You just want to be sure the cable is routed between the airbag and the vehicle sheet-metal so the airbag can deploy unimpeded.

Vehicles I would avoid are any with huge sunroofs that would prevent installing an NMO mount. Does anyone actually use a sunroof?

 

[mmckenna]

I never had any issue doing NMO installs on modern vehicles. Getting around airbags isn't an issue if you route the cable correctly. Just make sure you are between the airbag and the roof.

I've done a bunch of GM and Ford trucks and SUV's. I'd have no issue doing more of those. As he said above, avoid anything with a sun roof if you can.

 

[mass-man]

Subaru bundles the sun roof and power liftgate together in the OUTBACK. Yes, it's less than ideal and no I have yet to open the sunroof after four years...I think a PU is next!!!

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Subaru bundles the sun roof and power liftgate together in the OUTBACK. Yes, it's less than ideal and no I have yet to open the sunroof after four years...I think a PU is next!!!

Be careful, in some trim packages you can't avoid the sunroof option period. With most pickups if you option leather seats...you're getting a sunroof.

So I guess this question itself demonstrates that I am possibly a little too obsessed with radios. But regardless my current vehicle broke down and I'm looking at getting some type of small SUV, possibly the Subaru outback, or maybe a pickup. My current vehicle (an older saturn) has 3 NMO mounts on the roof, which I installed myself. They've always worked fabulous. But, I remember reading somewhere that design constraints of certain newer vehicles (i.e. side airbags and/or other wiring) make it very difficult if not impossible to drop the headliner, install NMO mounts, route the coax to the proper spot etc.

So my question is, are there any vehicles I should avoid buying if I want to install say 2-4 NMO mounts on the roof and mount numerous radios/scanners inside the vehicle (maybe for HF, VHF/UHF and 700/800 scanning)? I'm open to taking my vehicle to a radio shop to install the NMO mounts & route the coax, although if it would cost many thousands of dollars I'd be inclined to want to do it myself. Any input you have would be appreciated. Thanks!

You don't have to drop the headliner to install a NMO mount. A lot of amateur radio operators get hung up on this (I don't know why). Keep in mind, NMO was designed during a time period when vehicles had double walled roofs. An outer, and an inner with a 3/4" or so void between the two. This meant, unless you wanted to cut all the spot welds which held the inner roof (which acted as a headliner) up to pull it out, you had to be able to install the mount blind from the top.

 

[WB9YBM]

So my question is, are there any vehicles I should avoid buying if I want to install say 2-4 NMO mounts on the roof and mount numerous radios/scanners inside the vehicle (maybe for HF, VHF/UHF and 700/800 scanning)? I'm open to taking my vehicle to a radio shop to install the NMO mounts & route the coax, although if it would cost many thousands of dollars I'd be inclined to want to do it myself. Any input you have would be appreciated. Thanks!

I've noticed that fortunately vehicle manufacturers are finally waking up to the fact that people will install radio equipment in their cars. One example of that I found in my Toyota is that the car's owners manual states that coax cable needs to be routed at least one inch or more away from other cables & wires in the car. (Unfortunately that's the only advice the owners' manual gave.)

The radio shop idea you mentioned might be the best bet: they'll know how to keep cables clear from air bags, side curtains, etc. etc. etc. (and if nothing else, should something go wrong with airbag deployment during an accident, you can hold the radio shop responsible instead of taking all the heat yourself).

 

[mmckenna]

A lot of amateur radio operators get hung up on this (I don't know why).

I agree. I think most hams have never tried, yet keep repeating what they heard as gospel truth to sound like they know how it's done, or make excuses to not put the effort into it.
30 years and never dropped a headliner. I did have to partially lower one when my wife insisted on having a small SUV with sun roof. But never had to remove one.

 

[mmckenna]

I've noticed that fortunately vehicle manufacturers are finally waking up to the fact that people will install radio equipment in their cars. One example of that I found in my Toyota is that the car's owners manual states that coax cable needs to be routed at least one inch or more away from other cables & wires in the car. (Unfortunately that's the only advice the owners' manual gave.)

Ford and GM have been doing this for decades. They go as far as to spec antenna location and power levels based on frequency to prevent issues with the computers. Some of this came out of their use as public safety/public works vehicles, some for ham/CB use.

 

[AK9R]

...should something go wrong with airbag deployment during an accident, you can hold the radio shop responsible instead of taking all the heat yourself...

Unfortunately, you could be dead if the airbag doesn't deploy as designed, so being able to sue the radio shop that did the install will not be of great benefit to you, personally.

The big three U.S. manufacturers have been providing fleet vehicles for years that often end up with radio installs. These manufacturers know how it should be done. They all provide general-purpose radio installation guides and upfitter guides for specific vehicles. That's where I'd start.

 

[natedawg1604]

I greatly appreciate everyone's comments, they are quite helpful. I guess I didn't even think about installing an NMO mount without dropping the headliner, but maybe that would be a good option. Also it sounds like I really should avoid anything with Sun Roofs altogether.

 

[WB9YBM]

Ford and GM have been doing this for decades. They go as far as to spec antenna location and power levels based on frequency to prevent issues with the computers. Some of this came out of their use as public safety/public works vehicles, some for ham/CB use.

Glad to hear more car mfrs are catching on! (Too late for the CB boom of the 70s, though...)

 

[JoshuaHufford]

I have a 2014 Outback, I had a radio shop drill and install 2 NMO mounts, one dead center, and one towards the front. All that was required was removing the door seals and some lower trim, the tech was able to fish the wiring through everywhere needed with one of those giant cable ties with the end cut off, those things work great for fishing wires. I also removed the shark fin antenna on the back since I don't use satellite radio and made use of that hole for a third NMO mount.

BTW, my Outback does not have a Sunroof, and while a couple cars that I have owned did have sunroofs, and I did enjoy using them, I would never choose a car with a sunroof if I had the choice. One vehicle that had one was an 89 Honda Accord, and apparently a drain hole that I could never find apparently clogged, and if I parked on any type of an uphill incline and it rained, the whole roof section would fill up with water, then when you started to drive it would pour down on you. I discovered this for the first time when it was about 35F outside and I got about a gallon of cold water poured down my back!

 

[mmckenna]

89 Honda Accord, and apparently a drain hole that I could never find apparently clogged

Good Lord, does that bring back some memories. When my wife and I got married she had a 1995 Honda Del Sol. It would collect water in the back behind the seat where the rear window rolled down into. The drain hole either got plugged or was never thought of. I had to go under her car and drill a hole to drain it. If you didn't, every turn resulted in sloshing noises.

I hated that car, and it turned me off of Honda's for life.

 

[kayn1n32008]

I drive a '14 Jetta. I have a sunroof and side/curtain airbags. It's NOT rocket science to route coax to avoid everything. Everyone is making it a way bigger issue than it is.

As for airbags, use your brain and do not route the coax over the airbags direction of deployment.

 

[mmckenna]

Everyone is making it a way bigger issue than it is.

It's rocket science combined with brain surgery to some.
And a good excuse not to do a proper install to others.

Just drill the $@%^& hole already.

 

[N4GIX]

In any case, step one must be:

Disconnect the battery! This will eliminate accidental airbag deployment.

My local Motorola dealer quoted a price of $150/antenna installed. This includes fishing the cable and routing it down either the B pillar or down the A pillar. My preference would be the B pillar since I have three radios located under the pax seat. I'll need three antennas for my V/U equipment, as the HF FT-857D has an ATAS120 on the rear deck.

1. Dual-Band 2m/70cm for the TM-V71A
2. Dual-Band 2m/70cm for the CS800D
3. Monoband 1.25cm for the Bridgecom BCM-220

 

[natedawg1604]

In any case, step one must be:

Disconnect the battery! This will eliminate accidental airbag deployment.

My local Motorola dealer quoted a price of $150/antenna installed. This includes fishing the cable and routing it down either the B pillar or down the A pillar. My preference would be the B pillar since I have three radios located under the pax seat. I'll need three antennas for my V/U equipment, as the HF FT-857D has an ATAS120 on the rear deck.

1. Dual-Band 2m/70cm for the TM-V71A
2. Dual-Band 2m/70cm for the CS800D
3. Monoband 1.25cm for the Bridgecom BCM-220

Wow that's a great price, I'll talk to a local Radio shop my work uses.

Incidentally I ended up getting an older Honda CR-V, I believe it does have side airbags; I guess if a local radio shop does it I'll just need to decide where I want the cables terminated.