BCD436HP/BCD536HP: NXDN One Frequency Programming

[racingfan360]

Hi, I'm looking for some practical advice based on your actual experience.....a lack of multiple NXDN transmitters nearby make this more tricky for me to test exhaustively on my own. Also, I'm in Europe so there's no FCC/database to help out. I use ARC536Pro, but the manual doesn't help on NXDN setups.......

Away from home, I wish to monitor a group of NXDN Conventional repeaters at a location. The frequencies they will use will be drawn from a known but larger pool of frequencies. I just don't know which of those channels will be in use until I get there. This is all very easy to setup and scan as a Conventional system. But they also use CallerID, and I want to see that info. This is where I need help please:

1. If I setup as a NXDN One Frequency System, can anyone confirm (a) do i have to setup a new site entry per every frequency I wish to scan (ie site to frequency ratio of 1:1) or (b) can I add multiple frequencies to a single site (ie site to frequency ratio of 1:many). My recollection is that (b) doesn't work.

2. If I setup as a NXDN Trunk System, which I've never done before btw (a) would it work and if so (b) if I add multiple frequencies to a single site (ie site to frequency ratio of 1:many) will that work for this scenario.

There is a pool of over 50 frequencies to chose from so I'm looking for the most efficient way to program this up: method 1a could take some time ! I know I need to enable ID Search and set RAN=Search.

TIA

 

[hiegtx]

Hi, I'm looking for some practical advice based on your actual experience.....a lack of multiple NXDN transmitters nearby make this more tricky for me to test exhaustively on my own. Also, I'm in Europe so there's no FCC/database to help out. I use ARC536Pro, but the manual doesn't help on NXDN setups.......

Away from home, I wish to monitor a group of NXDN Conventional repeaters at a location. The frequencies they will use will be drawn from a known but larger pool of frequencies. I just don't know which of those channels will be in use until I get there. This is all very easy to setup and scan as a Conventional system. But they also use CallerID, and I want to see that info. This is where I need help please:

1. If I setup as a NXDN One Frequency System, can anyone confirm (a) do i have to setup a new site entry per every frequency I wish to scan (ie site to frequency ratio of 1:1) or (b) can I add multiple frequencies to a single site (ie site to frequency ratio of 1:many). My recollection is that (b) doesn't work.

For a NXDN One Frequency system (aka OFT), each frequency needs to be in individual sites. Squeezing more than one frequency into a site will keep it from working correctly.

2. If I setup as a NXDN Trunk System, which I've never done before btw (a) would it work and if so (b) if I add multiple frequencies to a single site (ie site to frequency ratio of 1:many) will that work for this scenario.

If you set it up as a NXDN Trunked System, in most cases you will need to also enter the Channel Numbers for each. If you are confident that a group of 2 or more frequencies are part of a system, not just individual OFTs, then put them in a NXDN Trunked system and run the LCN Finder that's in the Analyze menu.

In some cases, the channel numbers come from (for lack of a better term) standardized list, which can be calculated. See this thread. Also this and another that is for NXDN in general.

I have two NXDN public safety systems in my county. One uses the 'standardized channel numbers', the other simply in numerical order. There is another NXDN system here locally, used by a hospital group, where channel numbers are not needed. The system assigns the frequency without the need for further information.

There is a pool of over 50 frequencies to chose from so I'm looking for the most efficient way to program this up: method 1a could take some time ! I know I need to enable ID Search and set RAN=Search.

TIA

For any frequencies that you enter into an OFT system, or a Trunked system with more than one frequency (which you need to run the LCN Finder), you would need have ID Search, and RAN Search active (until you determine if a specific RAN is used) activated.

If you have a logging program, such as ProScan, you could put them into a conventional frequency system, with RAN set as search. Ideally, you would also set them to record as well. That way, once you collect a number of recordings, copy them to your PC and play them back with the Universal Scanner Audio Player. That will let you sort them by frequency. Your logs would indicate, perhaps, several using the same RAN, and if you hear basically the same voices & traffic types on several, those might be candidates for a system with more than one frequency. Running these as a large conventional would help you determine if some of the frequencies in the pool are either not in use, or possibly out of range.

Or, if you enter all of them into single OFT systems, also with record & log set up, then you'd also see TGIDs in your logs, along with the RAN in use. Sort these recordings in the player by talkgroup. If, again, you see the same TGID on several frequencies, same voice traffic, then that would also be a clue that they are connected.

 

[enosjones]

Dsdplus is another asset to help u determine the frequencies used and the ran and IDs, as well as some of the lcns

 

[racingfan360]

Thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated. Just to confirm, these are Conventional (non-trunked) repeaters and while they are connected to a single event and their frequency usage is co-ordinated, they are not "technically" linked to one another, all of them have individual license holders/users on them.

Looks like I need to go down the option 1a route then. If this helps others reading this thread at a later date, the other bit of advice is to make sure a Dept is added to the System, even if it uses dummy data.

Good to see advice on DSD+ and USAP being shared too.

 

[ka3jjz]

You might also want to check out this thread, from our FAQ

NXDN One Frequency vs Conventional NXDN Programming

I've been working on a couple new NXDN systems here and have noticed something on both the x36hp and SDS 100 while programming. When I program the system as a One Frequency NXDN and add the TGID 0, both scanners seem to miss alot of transmissions. When it's programmed as Conventional NXDN...

forums.radioreference.com

Mike

 

[racingfan360]

Thanks Mike. I think part of the confusion is that if you want to see CallerID on a Conventional system, then you have to program as Trunked (albeit One Freq Trunked) - OFT). Of course its good that Uniden at least decodes NXDN CallerID....none of the scanner/receiver makes do.

 

[werinshades]

Thanks Mike. I think part of the confusion is that if you want to see CallerID on a Conventional system, then you have to program as Trunked (albeit One Freq Trunked) - OFT). Of course its good that Uniden at least decodes NXDN CallerID....none of the scanner/receiver makes do.

It really depends on how you want to receive/see the system. If you want to text tag UID's (Radio ID's, or as you call them Caller ID's), then the One Frequency Trunk (OFT) method is the best. If not, then Conventional/Digital programming is best and you can set up a RAN when programming the frequency. Just keep in mind of the problems I noted in the thread if using OFT, that haven't been addressed for years via firmware updates. If it's problematic, use the Conventional programming method.

 

[racingfan360]

Thanks for that and the helpful reminder of the unreliable performance when in NXDN OFT mode. Just to confirm, I'm really comfortable using conventional programming and getting the 436 to display RAN, TGID and UID on a NXDN system. But to be specific it was when some systems use (and to be more precise) NXDN Over-The-Air-Alias which is then displayed on a CallerID enabled Kenwood receiver that I was after. Its this Alias assigned to the radio unit that can often yield some interesting additional info, and I believe OFT is the ONLY way of seeing this.

If only scanners would decode/display even half of the info available in DSD+ then life would be so much better.

 

[werinshades]

Its this Alias assigned to the radio unit that can often yield some interesting additional info, and I believe OFT is the ONLY way of seeing this.

If only scanners would decode/display even half of the info available in DSD+ then life would be so much better.

This is correct on how to see the Alias ID's. The DSD+ would be a little too bulky in my pocket, so that's not going to work.

 

[racingfan360]

The DSD+ would be a little too bulky in my pocket, so that's not going to work.

Yes that exactly my problem for a few scenarios where I need to be more mobile. For other scenarios, I can happily run DSD+ on a Windows tablet and get to see log all the relevant data.

 

[werinshades]

Yes that exactly my problem for a few scenarios where I need to be more mobile. For other scenarios, I can happily run DSD+ on a Windows tablet and get to see log all the relevant data.

As I've been aware, not all NXDN Trunking system administrators run Alias ID's on their system. If it's seen on DSD+,and if it's set up as a NXDN Trunking system, it will be seen on Uniden x36hp and SDS series of scanners. I know not everyone has a NXDN Trunking system within range, so the information on these forums is limited.