OAKLAND: Police Radios Fail Following Gunfire At Oakland Hotel
- Thread starter n2ops
- Start date
- Status
mjthomas59
Member
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2006
- Messages
- 510
The radio shown on that broadcast appeared to be a MTS2000.
None the less this seems to underline an epidemic of poor radio systems across the country that are suppose to ensure communication for those out in the field. The lives of both 1st responders and civilians rely on these systems to work. Regardless of the cause, poor design, poor planning, poor budgeting, manufacturers undercutting bids, etc etc it makes you wonder when people will say enough is enough.
Who knew interoperability actually meant building systems that cost millions of dollars in infrastructure, millions more for equipment in the field, and all of which rely on phone lines and IP to function.
Thankfully none of the LEO's got hurt due to this. One would think the lawsuit against the city if someone had gotten hurt because of the radio system would outweigh the cost of doing proper system maintenance. That obviously isn't the case or this wouldn't be an epidemic across the nation, pretty pathetic.
None the less this seems to underline an epidemic of poor radio systems across the country that are suppose to ensure communication for those out in the field. The lives of both 1st responders and civilians rely on these systems to work. Regardless of the cause, poor design, poor planning, poor budgeting, manufacturers undercutting bids, etc etc it makes you wonder when people will say enough is enough.
Who knew interoperability actually meant building systems that cost millions of dollars in infrastructure, millions more for equipment in the field, and all of which rely on phone lines and IP to function.
Thankfully none of the LEO's got hurt due to this. One would think the lawsuit against the city if someone had gotten hurt because of the radio system would outweigh the cost of doing proper system maintenance. That obviously isn't the case or this wouldn't be an epidemic across the nation, pretty pathetic.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2010
- Messages
- 436
Its just a matter of time, and everyone who knows anything about public safety radio comms knows this.
OMG !!!
A Mighty MOTO system failed to work.... Lets see if the newspapers and forums can make as much of this as they do for a M/A Com Harris system fart...
Hail to the mighty MOTO !!
Go Harris !!
A Mighty MOTO system failed to work.... Lets see if the newspapers and forums can make as much of this as they do for a M/A Com Harris system fart...
Hail to the mighty MOTO !!
Go Harris !!
From the database it appears that Oakland is using an EDACS system.
PJH
Member
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2002
- Messages
- 3,621
Didn't do his homework fail.
Oakland is an EDACS system, and this hasn't been the first time its had problems.
http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=352
About dcr_inc
Location
Delta, Pa
Occupation
Radio Systems Manager York Co Pa
Yes go Harris!
York County's radio vendor, Harris Corp., has isolated and is working to repair a glitch that causes problems when emergency responders from more than two counties try to communicate.
http://www.ydr.com/news/ci_17342305?source=rss
Oakland is an EDACS system, and this hasn't been the first time its had problems.
http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=352
About dcr_inc
Location
Delta, Pa
Occupation
Radio Systems Manager York Co Pa
Yes go Harris!
York County's radio vendor, Harris Corp., has isolated and is working to repair a glitch that causes problems when emergency responders from more than two counties try to communicate.
http://www.ydr.com/news/ci_17342305?source=rss
Last edited:
b7spectra
EMS Dispatcher
I'm probably like everyone else trying to figure out how a Motherola MTS2000 works on an EDACS system! Makes me wonder if the radio they were showing happened to be the one the media uses.
What does Oakland have an advantage over San Francisco? Oakland has a great view of San Francisco!
What does Oakland have an advantage over San Francisco? Oakland has a great view of San Francisco!
GTO_04
Member
My county uses an EDACS system, and this failure comes as no surprise to me at all!
GTO_04
GTO_04
radio failures happen all over the country Shelton, CT has a radio system thats a POS they cant hear the cars locally but I can hear them almost 20 miles away. Almost makes me want to call dispatch myself sometimes. All public safety needs proper working radio equipment face it lives depend on those radios but usually those with the least knowledge are the ones in charge and the low bid gets the contract. at least thats the way it is here. fact is, we should be doing more to make sure those in public safety have the most reliable equipment there is to protect them, protect us
Joe
Joe
Confuzzled
Member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2008
- Messages
- 704
"The people" don't have a clue.
The equipment and service providers that helped ram this nonsense through the FCC.
WA1ATA
Member
The other articles I have read about this incident indicate that the problem was that the handhelds were not able to communicate with the dispatcher and that some officers had to return to their cars to communicate with dispatch.
That sounds more like a simple coverage issue rather than anything unique to EDACs or other fancy system architecture.
Now back to the regularly scheduled Moto / Harris / ??? bashing.
That sounds more like a simple coverage issue rather than anything unique to EDACs or other fancy system architecture.
Now back to the regularly scheduled Moto / Harris / ??? bashing.
FLA2760
Member
All these new and supposed improved radio systems are a disaster. I guess that conventional VHF or UHF systems are no good for public safety anymore according to the radio vendors. Quick, some radio salesman tell that to NYPD because their system works well and is conventional.
kayn1n32008
ØÆSØ Say it, say 'ENCRYPTION'
Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry9630/4.7.1.57 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/109)
And analoge!!!
And analoge!!!
12dbsinad
Member
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2010
- Messages
- 2,006
Couldnt of said it better myself!
PJH...
Yorks system supports 68 Fire companies, 37 EMS stations and 26 Police departments...
Out of all of these units, there are 2.. Count em TWO fire departments that are crying.. Both are in the Hanover area..
Show me the articles from the police department in hanover that has problems with the York system.. You WONT find it... It is amazing how it is ALWAYS the fire departments that CRY when the work digital is used.. listen to the York FD and PD feeds and make your own opinion as to the systems worthiness and reliability..
Oh and thanks for the BIO..
YES... I failed to do my homework on the Edacs system...Just heard the typical "WHA WHA WHA its not Moto so it's junk" rhetoric..
(Jumping off my soap box).. NUFF SAID !!
Yorks system supports 68 Fire companies, 37 EMS stations and 26 Police departments...
Out of all of these units, there are 2.. Count em TWO fire departments that are crying.. Both are in the Hanover area..
Show me the articles from the police department in hanover that has problems with the York system.. You WONT find it... It is amazing how it is ALWAYS the fire departments that CRY when the work digital is used.. listen to the York FD and PD feeds and make your own opinion as to the systems worthiness and reliability..
Oh and thanks for the BIO..
YES... I failed to do my homework on the Edacs system...Just heard the typical "WHA WHA WHA its not Moto so it's junk" rhetoric..
(Jumping off my soap box).. NUFF SAID !!
PJH..
P.S. the "system failure" was an interop patch failure when more than 3 interop systems were brought together it would release the patch... Truth being... Hanover has their low band and UHF conventional radios in their units as well as having SPECIAL programming in their radios to allow interop with their neighboring companies..Which is how they interoped for years.. Jan Cromer failed to state this in his article..
So far this cry baby has cost the taxpayers of York county over a million dollars and he is still not quiet..
P.S. the "system failure" was an interop patch failure when more than 3 interop systems were brought together it would release the patch... Truth being... Hanover has their low band and UHF conventional radios in their units as well as having SPECIAL programming in their radios to allow interop with their neighboring companies..Which is how they interoped for years.. Jan Cromer failed to state this in his article..
So far this cry baby has cost the taxpayers of York county over a million dollars and he is still not quiet..
radioman2001
Member
I don't think the type or brand of system has anything to do with the problem. ANY!! Public Safety radio system that fails is unacceptable whether digital or analog or trunked or conventional or even if it is VHF ,UHF or even Low Band. Too much emphasis today is being put on building unmonitorable, digital,data capable, and trunked systems. In my opinion the technology hasn't developed yet to provide these systems in a Public Safety quality (KISS ala NYPD). Fortunatly most analog conventional systems are resiliant enough to keep on working when a single point of the system fails, not so for trunked systems, and as they become more complicated, so does the tendency for them to fail, and fail big time. Maybe using your cellphone for talking to you spouse is ok when it fails but when PS radio fails people can die.
Another issue is using 800 mhz in the woods, which is not a smart application of radio resources, it takes nearly 8 times the number of transmitters and receivers to provide the same coverage as VHF. Cross patching in itself is not a problem, but when you put large amounts of radio traffic on a patch, things will get screwed up. Also all it takes is one radio to get stuck in transmit to take the whole system down, couple that with digital, which doesn't exhibit the same capture principles as FM, and you whole multi-million dollar system becomes useless.
I believe that ALL public Safety systems should stay analog and conventional.(KISS) You want data capabilty, build a seperate system for it, so if it fails, then you can still use you analog conventional voice system. If radio traffic exceeds the conventional system, build a simple, localized trunk system. You want to talk to someone across the state, use a cell phone. There is no reason why someone at one end of the state NEEDS to talk to the other side.
Unfortunatly radio system design is being driven by the vendors not the agencies that use them, they are being given a myraid of options that most don't understand or need and would never use. Replace your equipment as needed with the same type to meet any FCC deadline, but don't change the type of a working system you have.
It will take the deaths of numerous PS personell and civilians before that principle is recognized and maybe implemented. (remember FDNY and digital) There are 2 main problems out there, one the vendor will never admit that there system has issues, and two you will never, ever, ever get a public official say they made a mistake when they chose the failing system.
Another issue is using 800 mhz in the woods, which is not a smart application of radio resources, it takes nearly 8 times the number of transmitters and receivers to provide the same coverage as VHF. Cross patching in itself is not a problem, but when you put large amounts of radio traffic on a patch, things will get screwed up. Also all it takes is one radio to get stuck in transmit to take the whole system down, couple that with digital, which doesn't exhibit the same capture principles as FM, and you whole multi-million dollar system becomes useless.
I believe that ALL public Safety systems should stay analog and conventional.(KISS) You want data capabilty, build a seperate system for it, so if it fails, then you can still use you analog conventional voice system. If radio traffic exceeds the conventional system, build a simple, localized trunk system. You want to talk to someone across the state, use a cell phone. There is no reason why someone at one end of the state NEEDS to talk to the other side.
Unfortunatly radio system design is being driven by the vendors not the agencies that use them, they are being given a myraid of options that most don't understand or need and would never use. Replace your equipment as needed with the same type to meet any FCC deadline, but don't change the type of a working system you have.
It will take the deaths of numerous PS personell and civilians before that principle is recognized and maybe implemented. (remember FDNY and digital) There are 2 main problems out there, one the vendor will never admit that there system has issues, and two you will never, ever, ever get a public official say they made a mistake when they chose the failing system.
- Status
