captncarp
Member
sc8 knows what he is talking about. If it hasn't already happened it will eventually that someone in the field goes down because of 911 dispatching.
Orange County P25 Trunked System on the air.....
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radiomanNJ1
Member
You folks are starting to sound like Bergen Co. where the word cooperation is not spoken. Many different frequencies, bands, inability to talk to each other despite the availability of the county UHF trunk system and the coming 700 system. Give them a chance. I can't tell you many other systems have had issues when being constructed. Do you really think it's better to have a multiple regional ambulance operations? Motorola trunking has been extremely great in Rockland and in NJ.
Certainly N2ACF knows!!!
Certainly N2ACF knows!!!
OC911 does not have a good history with their radio systems. Since their inception, they have been plagued with communications problems. NYCOMCO was their vendor and their salesman at the time was selling the County on things that would not work properly, but they wanted to make money, so they would say or do anything to make a buck.
NYCOMCO sold the County on the EDACS radio system, knowing full well that it would not provide adequate coverage of the County. The Commissioner of 911 had no knowledge or experience in emergency communications or radio systems, so she trusted the NYCOMCO sales rep, which was her first mistake. Once NYCOMCO had money in hand, they put in the half assed EDACS system and when agencies complained to the County about coverage problems, the County went to NYCOMCO and they were told that in order to have additional tower sites for EDACS, they would need to 10 more sites and the cost would be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Instead of trying to get the money, the Commissioner decided to leave things as they were, so the only tower sites for EDACS were Beacon, Arden & Graham. These towers did not provide good coverage of the County, which led to many issues.
Now, OC is working on this new 700 radio system and the guy in charge has no previous experience in the building of radio systems and no training in radio engineering. Nothing against the person in charge, but the person in charge should have some training and knowledge.
For many years, the County promised improvements to all of the radio systems and many of them never happened. Agencies have taken matters into their own hands and they built their own radio systems, that rival the County systems.
Many agencies have just lost faith in the County and do not believe that the new radio system will ever get finished.
NYCOMCO sold the County on the EDACS radio system, knowing full well that it would not provide adequate coverage of the County. The Commissioner of 911 had no knowledge or experience in emergency communications or radio systems, so she trusted the NYCOMCO sales rep, which was her first mistake. Once NYCOMCO had money in hand, they put in the half assed EDACS system and when agencies complained to the County about coverage problems, the County went to NYCOMCO and they were told that in order to have additional tower sites for EDACS, they would need to 10 more sites and the cost would be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Instead of trying to get the money, the Commissioner decided to leave things as they were, so the only tower sites for EDACS were Beacon, Arden & Graham. These towers did not provide good coverage of the County, which led to many issues.
Now, OC is working on this new 700 radio system and the guy in charge has no previous experience in the building of radio systems and no training in radio engineering. Nothing against the person in charge, but the person in charge should have some training and knowledge.
For many years, the County promised improvements to all of the radio systems and many of them never happened. Agencies have taken matters into their own hands and they built their own radio systems, that rival the County systems.
Many agencies have just lost faith in the County and do not believe that the new radio system will ever get finished.
radiomanNJ1
Member
Apparently you folks to the North seem to think that Motorola does not have the staff required to plan and sub contractors to construct towers and has not done this successfully in a great number of locations, some flat some with mountains. NYCOMCO is not Motorola. Statewide systems built by Motorola, countywide systems, local systems. For experience just look at Rockland. N2ACF is not an engineer but he will tell you their 700 mhz phase II system runs and runs.
911 dispatching has nothing to do with the quality of the radio system and vice versa.
Funny 911 systems work everywhere else. Screwups do happen but they are in the very small minority.
D
DaveNF2G
Guest
That depends on how the county in question is organized.
Apparently OC has one person in charge of all aspects of 9-1-1 and the radio system.
Other counties separate 9-1-1 (call taking and dispatch operations) from the operation of the radio system(s).
Not quite.
The 911 center has its own supervisors and trainers. But the communications specialist (who is building the radio system) is a dispatcher/supervisor who was placed into this new role, however he doesn't have an engineering or systems background
The 911 center has its own supervisors and trainers. But the communications specialist (who is building the radio system) is a dispatcher/supervisor who was placed into this new role, however he doesn't have an engineering or systems background
Orange County 911 has everything to do with the radio systems in the County. They have been in charge of the radio systems since their inception. It is unfortunate that the County does not have a certified and properly trained engineer. Also, I was told that the County is acting as the GC for this radio project. Signal Zero might be able to confirm that.
Before 911 came in to fruition, several police departments had their own dispatch centers, which they were not willing to give up when the 911 Center first started. As time went on, these agencies evaluated their needs and decided that they could keep on using their dispatch centers.These agencies realized that their own dispatchers were highly valuable and they did not to give up their services in favor of County dispatch services.
APX8000
Sarcastic Member
4Q 2018 is here ! Just makes me want to post up the original timeline but I’ll be gentle.
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I would not be surprised with those town's doing it but then again MICCOM is not a good example seeing as they are only an ALS dispatch center for ALS units as well handles EMD for towns, most towns dispatch out their ambulances anyways down there.
To be honest, the way Orange 911 has been over the last few years it is a joke. Dispatchers not properly dispatching, holding back on dispatching fire companies that are on automatic response to other companies, this also includes the Interstates and Highways. The other day a Chief was trying to get ahold of Orange 911 and the dispatcher said that it was just static coming through and kept asking the Chief if he acknowledged the call and is responding, after the 2nd time of static the dispatcher proceeds to transmit to the Chief that he is marking that Chief as responding even though the dispatcher purely said he could not copy the transmission. How can you just assume something, don't these dispatchers understand that when they timestamp the time of a unit responding that means that it's on the record and god forbid there is a lawsuit and they pull those records and it shows the Chief responding but, he wasn't (example).
Don't get me started on the attitudes and sourness that these dispatchers give to units in the field. This also includes a 2nd FD unit calling on the air responding. What happens when that apparatus doesn't call out to 911 and they get into an accident while responding and there is litigation and lawyers request timestamps of the times of the 2nd apparatus responding to the call. I think every unit that is responding should call out that they are responding and, on the scene, and if they can't do it then maybe it's time for towns to incorporate a dispatch center that can do it.
I remember when some departments were requesting that apparatus could transmit responding, on-scene etc. through apps like iamresponding, spotted dog and active911 and that guy Allen from OC911 was crying a fit that is more stuff that their dispatchers would have to handle and it's too much. Interesting that he mentions that it's too much when you have cities around the nation that utilizes this, and it also keeps down on air time on the fire/ems channels.
You still have dispatchers laughing in the background, dispatchers giving attitudes over the radio to operators of all the emergency services. You also have dispatchers ignoring what units in the field are telling them to do and question what they are requesting. It even gets better, when an FD Chief requests mutual aid from 1 department and the dispatcher Said’s "Do you want your 2nd alarm?". Hello!! the Chief requested only the designated department he asked for, so why are you questioning his authority by asking him if wants the 2nd alarm transmitted?
Let's also add in a comment that was made by an OC911 dispatcher that most calls that come in for cars swerving all over the road and erratic drivers, possible DUI's they don't take seriously. There was a time when a car was all over the road, swerved into the other lane multiple times and dispatcher seemed to not care. Eventually they told me to not follow the vehicle and to just go on my merry way then hung up, I actually disregarded what they told me and kept following them, 2 minutes later a town PD dispatcher called me and asked where the car was and where I was, I told her that I was still behind the vehicle and they were passing such and such location. Literally within a minute one of their patrol cars pulled out of a road and I told their dispatcher that he was literally right behind her if he pushed it. He caught up to her, pulled her over and I got pulled over by another PD unit to identify if that was the car. They got a DWI out of it and was the person's like 3rd DWI. So, for OC911 to not take calls seriously and it is coming from a dispatcher from OC911 it's sad and not to mention that town PD dispatcher even said they don't understand why OC911 tells people to just leave and forget about the car and Said’s it happens a lot.
It’s just sad that my hard earned money ( taxes ) goes into that communication center and salaries yet receive half *** service with the attitudes, unprofessionalism, the not take the job seriously, the laughing etc. etc. If OC911 acted like 60 Control or even like Dutchess County they would be a top-notch comms center.
Don't get me wrong not all of the dispatchers are that terrible there but you do have a lot of them at OC911 that really makes OC911 poor quality.
captncarp
Member
I think TAC98 has it right.
I get the impression the whole 911 system is being run by unemployables. Political appointments from top to bottom.
The call takers and dispatchers, are they all full time or are there a lot of part timers also? Are they supervised by political appointments? Is there any job oriented test for these positions or are they all filled from a general exam that just determines if they can read and write a little, for all county positions.
I believe someone once said here that many were Walmart clerks in there previous life and don't have a clue what they are doing in a 911 center. From the amount of laughter and chatter that is going on in the back ground of a lot of dispatches they give the impression of having a good time at someone's expense and having a dick job.
I get the impression the whole 911 system is being run by unemployables. Political appointments from top to bottom.
The call takers and dispatchers, are they all full time or are there a lot of part timers also? Are they supervised by political appointments? Is there any job oriented test for these positions or are they all filled from a general exam that just determines if they can read and write a little, for all county positions.
I believe someone once said here that many were Walmart clerks in there previous life and don't have a clue what they are doing in a 911 center. From the amount of laughter and chatter that is going on in the back ground of a lot of dispatches they give the impression of having a good time at someone's expense and having a dick job.
D
DaveNF2G
Guest
Entry level civil service tests are very generic and rarely job related. The test I took in 1982 for the 9-1-1 center in Rochester was basically a clerical skills test. After I was hired, there was an intensive training program, the first two weeks of which IIRC were not in the dispatch area at all. The City had the old consoles from the previous dispatch center wired up on a different floor for training. My trainer was the first civilian dispatcher hired by the Rochester PD and he knew his stuff. He also knew how to train. The supervisors when I started were a police sergeant and a RFD battalion chief, so we got very strong orientation to the needs of public safety agencies. Floor training lasted quite a while also.
The sloppy dispatching I hear in some dispatch centers now, including lazy diction and background noise, can be attributed to insufficient training and weak supervision. The civilian supervisors where I worked had to pass a promotional exam and receive additional training.
The sloppy dispatching I hear in some dispatch centers now, including lazy diction and background noise, can be attributed to insufficient training and weak supervision. The civilian supervisors where I worked had to pass a promotional exam and receive additional training.
Mbk127k
Member
Sounds like a County issue not town issue as in reference to Bergen County, every place has flaws. I mean how does a county create a new 911 dispatch center and tell the towns that they would dispatch for them but it's going to cost the town this much $$ to dispatch their services as in meaning of a dispatch contract. The county gets county tax so why does a town have to pay a county government agency a contract to dispatch for them, very silly. From living down there for many years as well as having many family members who belong to fire departments in Northern part of Bergen County it doesn't seem as bad as you make it out to be. I even think it's amazing that the Fire Departments in the Northwest portion utilize NORCON during fires to ease the issue of coordination during incidents that involve mutual aid, not sure how you call that uncooperative between the towns?.
Is it nice to have a County 911 center?, absolutely 100% but it's only as good as the staffing of that center and how effective their day to day operations of the 911 center. They are literally the command and control of emergency services.
There is absolutely more problems in the county besides the 911 and communications part as well. Such as ALS Services in the county. Sad last night to hear again!!.. like most times now OC911 tell a unit that there is no als available in the county. I mean the county executive made a comment that he was concerned about als service 3 years ago and it has gotten a lot worse since then and nothing has been done. It seems it has always been a leadership issue starting from the top and working it's way down which of course we see of the plague that goes on at the 911 center
I think the only good thing and the best things going on in the County and who has taking a very serious approach of things in this county is the Division of Fire Service. If it wasn't for good leadership there, we would not have seen a designated fire radio channel plan as what we have today which from my understanding was the undertaking of the fire service in Orange County and not Orange County Emergency Communications.
Mbk127k
Member
If this and if that, it's just like the good o'le saying "Wish in one hand, sh*t in the other. See which one gets filled first." And we all know what the end result is anyways for Orange County.
I've worked in both those 911 systems doing EMS and they are actually really A+ but they even have their own flaws as well.
One good county-based 911 center that is superb is Morris County Communications in New Jersey. They have a really great way of training their dispatchers, have some really great protocols and standard operating procedures there. I have to say I glad to be taught by one of their top supervisors from there who was doing the Telecommunicator and EMD certification at the Sussex County Sheriff's Office back a few years ago.
FCC Denies Orange County, N.Y., Requests for 800 MHz License
https://www.rrmediagroup.com/News/NewsDetails/newsID/17626
https://www.rrmediagroup.com/News/NewsDetails/newsID/17626
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