P25 on Business Frequencies - Rochester Area

[k2hz]

I first heard this system in December 2016 and posted on the Ontario Forum thinking it was from Canada but nobody heard it and it went away after a few weeks.

The signal is back today. It is weak and fading and there are several local analog business uses on the 154.515 CC frequency:

P25 Site 00001.002-3.3 NAC002 NL2.2
152.060a
152.270a
152.460a
154.515c

Site 2.2 150.2475c

I have never observed any activity on the system.

It may be experimental and I suspect Harris but I can't trace it to any of their local facilities.

 

[N5XPM]

Not familiar with the band plan in Canada, but 150.2475 is not a US business or public safety allocated frequency.

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

I did a several range searches in the FCC ULS within 50 miles of Rochester NY & also included pending applications. Didn't determine any results with the exact frequency mapping you mentioned. Agreed 150.2475 is a strange looking frequency to me

 

[VE6RSU2]

Hi K2HZ...

We are still using 15 Khz channel spacing on VHF hi band up here, so the closest Frequency to 150.2475 would be 150.245. A run down of Canadian licensees from Ontario on 150.245 MHz shows only 2 - both located no where near New York state and both running 16K0F3E. But...we can't search all the public safety licenses up here (most are "secret") so I suppose it could be Canadian public safety.

I checked across the lake from you and couldn't find anything the DB in Ontario that matches. My money is on a US system because of the 2 other frequencies you list: 152.460 & 154.515 - Both of which don't fit into the Canadian band plan (closest for 152.460 is 152.465 and for 154.515 the closest is 154.520).

Good hunting.

VE6RSU

 

[k2hz]

The 150 frequency was why I suspected Canada before but it was pretty much ruled out. There is no evidence of any ducting to Canada today which is why I believe it is somewhere in NY. They way it appears and disappears at odd times over the years and the lack of any users pretty much says it is experimental.

With several users on 154.515 in Rochester it is a poor choice to be experimenting with a constant CC signal so I think it is from some distance away.

 

[CqDx]

Are you close to the Harris facility at Rochester? May be it is a test system from the plant

you can Direction Find it by taking a quick drive and see if you can hear it the strongest.

 

[k2hz]

Are you close to the Harris facility at Rochester? May be it is a test system from the plant

you can Direction Find it by taking a quick drive and see if you can hear it the strongest.

Been there-done that, and it does not seem to be local. I tried driving by the local Harris sites but can only hear it as a weak signal at home on my base antenna. No trace anywhere on a portable. I also doubt it can be local or it would cause havoc with Nazareth College that is on 154.515 analog.

I have done license searches and the frequencies and nature of use do not fit for any licensed facility.

I hoped that someone might recognize the SysID/WACN info.

 

[ThePagerGeek]

It's really low level in downtown Rochester.

WACN 00001 SYS 002

Site 1 150.2375
Site 2 150.2475
Site 3 154.515 (Can be heard / decoded)

Bandplan
0 Base 150.000 Offset+4.84 Spacing 2.5khz BW=12.5
1 Base 150.000 Offset+5.8 Spacing 2.5khz BW=12.5
2 Base 150.000 Offset+4.135 Spacing 2.5khz BW=12.5

I can't hear Site 1 or 2

Site 3 Channels
152.060
152.270
152.460
154.515

Are you SURE it's not coming from either the University Ave or Jefferson Rd Harris RF facilities? They had an issue in the past with a constant signal left on 154.415 over a weekend, to which Henrietta FD tracked down to their University Ave facility. Not intentional, but things happen sometimes...

 

[k2hz]

I have not gone out to chase it this time since the signal is weak and I had no success when I heard it in the past. I had a handheld scanner and left the squelch open so I could hear any trace of a signal. I started at Cobbs Hill to see if I could hear anything from up there if it was from a distant source. I then drove up Culver Rd and did a loop around University, Culver, Humboldt, Blossom and Winton with special attention to the University plant and nothing. I then went out Winton to Jefferson and even into the Jefferson plant parking lot and still nothing.

Harris is a prime suspect. Many years ago, when RPD was on VHF, Radio Center suddenly lost reception on the 156.03 repeater input. They checked the station metering and 1st limiter was in full saturation with a dead carrier. Also strong on their shop service monitor. The University plant is line of sight and near Cobbs Hill. They confirmed it was from Harris and when they got in touch with of whoever was responsible they found Harris was testing a 1kW transmitter built for export and had it on an unshielded dummy load.

Last night, before I went to bed, I checked and the signal was very strong but this morning it is back down in the noise again.

I don't feel like going out to chase it today, especially with the weak signal and the weather. I actually hoped someone from Harris might see this post and make it go away.

 

[k2hz]

The signal was stronger today after being very weak over the weekend so I went out to chase it.

It is Harris from the University Ave facility. I verified NAC002 on the signal from that site. It seems to be somewhat directional to the north since it was much stronger at the intersection of Blossom and Carlson than in front of the facility on University Ave. It was apparently stronger around the University vs the Humboldt facilities. In any event, I am receiving receiving it at home about 1.5 miles south even with line of sight blocked by the Cobbs Hill/Pinnacle Hill ridge line. That is probably why the signal is subject to fading at my location.

In addition to the fact they don't seem to believe in use of an effective dummy load for testing a system with no apparent users, why would they put the continuous CC signal on a business frequency with local users?