P7100 Audio Quality

[SCPD]

I was wondering if anyone else on the board is using the Macom P7100 handheld radio on a standard EDACS trunking system. If so what are your impressions of the audio quality of it verses the MRK? I have done a firmware update to the radios and the audio got a little better but it seems there is no bass to the audio. I was wanting to see what others are experencing.

Craig

 

[WCRadioGuy]

I was wondering if anyone else on the board is using the Macom P7100 handheld radio on a standard EDACS trunking system. If so what are your impressions of the audio quality of it verses the MRK? I have done a firmware update to the radios and the audio got a little better but it seems there is no bass to the audio. I was wanting to see what others are experencing.

Craig

Craig,

I have definitely heard complaints in the past of differences in audio quality with P7100 vs. M-RK. I think personally the M-RK sounds a little better. What version of flash did you upgrade to? Is your P7100 v.30 or v.70 series?

 

[EDACSTECH]

P7100 Audio

There are two issues that are related to P7100 audio quality.
1. There is a program setting labeled audio filter or something. I cant remenber until I look at the software. This is a new config setting that can only be seen or changed by the newest version of programmer. If you have older programming software, you won't even see this setting.
2. The is a factory tech memo about low and tinny volume with P7100 radios. A SMT has to be changed. I ordered this part to upgrade this on a shipment of radios but the part is so small, much smaller than many SMT's that I don't feel I can properly perform this change in my shop. You are more likely to damage the radio than correct this issue. M/A-COM will issue a RMA to send this in for factory upgrade for a small $$$. I have not done this and can't comment on the results or turn around time.

Good luck

 

[SCPD]

Thank you for the infomation. WCRadioguy, I think it was version .70 but I will have to double check that when I get back to the office on Monday. TAC sent us the firmware this week so I'm thinking it is the latest and greatest. We did see some improvments in the audio but it still does sound right to me. EDACStech, I am using version R18 programmer is that the same version you are using? Do you have any information on the SMT change out? We have a surface mount soldering station so for me changing it out is no problem. By changing out this parts do you know what it is correcting? Again, Thank you for the feed back.


Craig

 

[WCRadioGuy]

J2R10A05 is the latest code for the P7100.

R19A is the latest version of ProGrammer. I think the setting EDACSTECH is talking about is AGC in the OPTIONS Tab -->General Options. If this is what he is talking about, it is for the TX side of the portable.

If you have access to tech link, the TSM is Vol. 28 #1 P7100/P5100 RX audio quality dated 1/5/06. The TSM details specific instructions on the mod along with part numbers of the SMT.

 

[EDACSTECH]

I used Programmer R18B02. We have newer software but have not used it for P7100 radios. The setting is under tab "Jaguar 700P/P7100 Options" & is called "Analog Voice Equalizer." We also have SMT Stations, but after looking at the part to be changed and where it was in the radio with many other SMT's close by, I didn't think I could replace this with a quality result.

 

[IPman]

I have a Jaguar 700P and I am monitoring a EDACS ProVoice system in Ocean City NJ, The recoverd audio is not very good. What settings do you recomend I play with to improve recovered audio quality?

 

[EDACSTECH]

I have a Jaguar 700P and I am monitoring a EDACS ProVoice system in Ocean City NJ, The recoverd audio is not very good. What settings do you recomend I play with to improve recovered audio quality?

I don't know of any audio quality with the Jaguar 700P radio. Is the ProVoice audio from the Ocean City NJ System worse than ProVoice audio from other systems? I ask because ProVoice audio has never sounded the same or as good as an EDACS Analog call.

Do you listen to any other systems on your 700P? How do they sound?

 

[Fowler]

We bought some P5100s to replace the discontinued LPEs. The 5100 audio is definately inferior to the LPE. Upgrade helped a little but it still sounds "tinny" on both analog and pro voice modes.

Fowler

 

[CSHIFTLT]

There is no other provoice radio that equals the audio of the LPE-200 the 700p, 5100, and 7100, all are on the jaq basis, the audio had the problem when the 700 came out and has not been fixed in the newer models, opensky has the same tinky sound, it is not the digtial that makes it soound like tha,t it is the speaker, filter and case (frame) of the jaq series, analog will always sound better. (other than the static in fringe areas) but digtial has no static, it is clean audio with parts of the sound spectrum taken out so they can get the audio compressed. P25 (digtial) audio sounds like that also on the Jaq series, but also the motorola has the same tinny problem (espically on shoulder mics)

Just my ideas after listen to 10 or 15 diffrent radios and type digtial's.
Cshiftlt

 

[ElroyJetson]

It seems to me that the audio quality of EDACS portable radios has steadily worsened over the years. The old MP-Ds sound EXCELLENT, the M-PAs sound good but not as good as an M-PD, and everything newer than those has sounded pretty bad. The LPE sounds OK but
it can't generate enough quality audio to work in a situation that is at all noisy. But that radio
has a cheap feel all over it. Jaguars are better but still not even close to the audio quality of an M-PA. An Otto Communications speaker/mic enhances the audio quality of most EDACS radios.

I have yet to find a top tier Motorola portable radio that delivers bad audio quality. By
top tier, I mean the radios that they developed for the public safety market.


In my own experiences, that is. YMMV.

 

[Tom_G]

Ya know...
The MP-D was the last radio manufactured in the USA.. Imagine that...
And they sell for next to nothing on ebay.
I really like the MP-D and the MP-A.
I also have some Panther 500 radios that sound pretty good.

Our local PD has switched all their MP-A's over to Jaguar 7000 series, but I have not heard enough yet to have a real opinion.

 

[IPman]

I don't know of any audio quality with the Jaguar 700P radio. Is the ProVoice audio from the Ocean City NJ System worse than ProVoice audio from other systems? I ask because ProVoice audio has never sounded the same or as good as an EDACS Analog call.

Do you listen to any other systems on your 700P? How do they sound?

Edacstech you make a good point; the recovered Pro-Voice audio does not sound very good from ANY Pro-Voice system, the problem is not unigue to Ocean City. Thats why I wonder if there is anything I can do with the programming software or load the most current Pro-Voice flash into the radio itself. Any suggestions?

I also have some Motorola Astro radios (XTS, ASTRO etc) and the Motorola didgtal IMBE voice decode has a really unigue "twang" in the recovered audio, but atleast the recovered audio has low frequencies and is much easier and less fatiguing to listen to than my Jaguar 700P in digital mode.

 

[CSHIFTLT]

I think you are missing my point, the provoice audio in an lpe sounds much better than the jaq series (700,5100,7100) m-pd's are analog and any analog always sounds better than digitial in the perfect world, everything new is moving digitial cell/public safety, tv, etc. The moto new astro series digitial is not that hot ethier, they turned up the audio but it can get so loud it overdrives the digitial and it is even worse than the jaq (provoice) , but that is the world changing and the p25 audio not that good ethier, and it won't stay around that long anyway, cosidering the new technology of mutible conversations on 1 pair of freq's.
Thanks for listening though, digitial has to get better to be used widley in the public safety field.
cshiftlt

 

[morganAL]

, the provoice audio in an lpe sounds much better than the jaq series (700,5100,7100)

I won't dispute that the digital does add is own "color" to the audio but I think a lot of the differences in the way the Jags and 7100s sound has to do with the size (or lack) of the speaker. Even in analog there is a difference if you sit a Jag and a LPE side by side.

 

[dgower]

Just my two cents:

We just finished deploying 300 P7150's (P7100) on our analog EDACS system. They were replacing MPA's. The audio quality on the new radios is terrible. They sound cheap, tinny and in a strange way, distorted. The MPA's had all kinds of intermittent problems probably due to their age, but they sounded a heck of a lot better than the P7150's

We issue a shoulder mic with each radio, and I've tried it with and without the shoulder mic, and it sounds a little better WITH the mic, but still sounds cheap and tinny.

The M7100's we bought sound strange as well, on TX they sound like the old 'compandered' Moto MTX900's, like the audio was compressed and then decompressed. I know it's probably going thru a DSP on the M7100 but that's how it sounds.

The MRK's, by far, sound the best. We still have about 150 of those left and people fight over them.

 

[MASTR-V]

The reason that the audio on the P7100 series sounds so terrible is because of the cheap speaker that they put into the radio. Take a P7100 and am MRK apart and look at the difference. There wasn't enough room for a large speaker with a big magnet unless they made the radio thicker around the speaker or did some big work-arounds on the board to allow it. If you put a speaker microphone on the radio, you will notice an improvement in the low end (bass) side of the audio spectrum.

The P7200 radios sound much better, but they are new and have some things that need to be worked out on the audio end. Typical for a new M/A-COM product...

 

[TXEMT]

I monitor the provoice system here in San Antonio on the 7100ip and the auido is not that bad, but at first after using the old analog motorola trunked system it was very hard to understand alot of the conversations, also at first we used the 700p and the audio was pretty bad and "tinny" with alot of garble from units, but when we went to the 7100ip's big improvement on the volume and quality, but hey even with the best radio you will still get what i call the "matrix" garble form units and dispatchers on a digital provoice system sometimes, just part of the digital communications world.

 

[ElroyJetson]

What I've been doing for some time now to improve the audio quality of Jaguars and 7100s is to remove the speaker from the housing, apply an X of plain old black electrical tape to the face of the speaker cone, and reinstall it in the housing. This helps to tame the tinniness quite a bit. And I've found that 7100s are VERY prone to rattling. Rubber tape used as
additional padding in several key areas does help. So does using electrical tape over the
seam between the metalized front shield and the board and frame.


Elroy

 

[studgeman]

And lets see, you are paying $1800 for that P7100, only to have to doctor it with tape? I feel so much better living in NY with its $2B Open Sky system comming! I am buying stock now in 3M's tape and adhesives division!

I just chalk this up to one more reason to by anything other than Maybe/Always Communicate