Personal Trunking System

[ferryfan_ray]

I have a question, probably obvious

I was wondering If its possible to make my own trunked system, if so, can someone direct me to a page, or tell me how? thanks!

 

[K2NEC]

Sure, anything is possible.

Cheap on the other hand? Not at all.
Between licencing, equipment, putting antennas/towers up, etc

Unless you have a VERY good reason, or just won the lotto, not worth it.

 

[buddrousa]

The big thing is the frequencies allocated without good reason and a number of active users that is not going to happen.
A town near me had their own P25 Phase 1 5 channel system and was told to double the users or give up 2 channels

 

[mmckenna]

Yeah, channel loading is a thing. Setting up your own trunked system on commercial LMR frequencies is going to require some serious justification with the frequency coordinator. Then the licensing. Then all the equipment, tower site, etc.

You could do it on amateur radio, but you're still looking at a lot of money on equipment and location.

No point in spending all that money if you don't have a good radio site.

You could do a single channel/single site trunked system pretty easily, but that doesn't give you a lot of usefulness.

I built out a single site 5 channel NXDN system back in 2011, and just the repeaters, antennas, power supplies and amplifiers ran about $350K.

 

[ferryfan_ray]

Yeah, channel loading is a thing. Setting up your own trunked system on commercial LMR frequencies is going to require some serious justification with the frequency coordinator. Then the licensing. Then all the equipment, tower site, etc.

You could do it on amateur radio, but you're still looking at a lot of money on equipment and location.

No point in spending all that money if you don't have a good radio site.

You could do a single channel/single site trunked system pretty easily, but that doesn't give you a lot of usefulness.

I built out a single site 5 channel NXDN system back in 2011, and just the repeaters, antennas, power supplies and amplifiers ran about $350K.

That is exactly what I want to do, just a single channel/site, I have a couple MTS2K's and an APX6000, both with trunking capabilities

 

[mmckenna]

That is exactly what I want to do, just a single channel/site, I have a couple MTS2K's and an APX6000, both with trunking capabilities

So, MTS-2000 / single site means SmartNet. Finding decent/usable SmartNet gear is going to be hard. There's lots out there, but MSF-5000's are a pain in the arse to set up. Quatars are out there, but looking at 1000 each. Plus the central controller, but a lot of those suffered from leaky capacitors.

And make sure your MTS-2000's and APX-6000's have flashcodes for SmartNet/SmartZone/StartSite operation.

Might want to consider LTR trunking, you'd need new radios, but it's still supported and probably going to be cheaper.

 

[ferryfan_ray]

So, MTS-2000 / single site means SmartNet. Finding decent/usable SmartNet gear is going to be hard. There's lots out there, but MSF-5000's are a pain in the arse to set up. Quatars are out there, but looking at 1000 each. Plus the central controller, but a lot of those suffered from leaky capacitors.

And make sure your MTS-2000's and APX-6000's have flashcodes for SmartNet/SmartZone/StartSite operation.

Might want to consider LTR trunking, you'd need new radios, but it's still supported and probably going to be cheaper.

My Radios have smartnet/zone, but I don't think it has StartSite, but whoa thats quite pricey

 

[mmckenna]

My Radios have smartnet/zone, but I don't think it has StartSite, but whoa thats quite pricey

Yep, and that is why not many people have their own trunked systems.

I have heard of people setting up a single channel LTR system on GMRS to control access. LTR is much cheaper, but your radios won't support that.

 

[ferryfan_ray]

Yep, and that is why not many people have their own trunked systems.

I have heard of people setting up a single channel LTR system on GMRS to control access. LTR is much cheaper, but your radios won't support that.

Probably not, but just to confirm, would I be able to affiliate on a school channel since schools are not open in my area right now, Or is that also a big NO?

 

[ka3aaa]

Do you have permission from the school district to use their system?

 

[Floridarailfanning]

Probably not, but just to confirm, would I be able to affiliate on a school channel since schools are not open in my area right now, Or is that also a big NO?

That's definitely a no. You can't just commandeer a talkgroup on a trunking system. That's illegal and a surefire way to get that APX bricked.

 

[slicerwizard]

Probably not, but just to confirm, would I be able to affiliate on a school channel since schools are not open in my area right now, Or is that also a big NO?

OMG...

 

[ferryfan_ray]

Do you have permission from the school district to use their system?

Yes, and I have checked with everyone I probably need to,

 

[mmckenna]

Probably not, but just to confirm, would I be able to affiliate on a school channel since schools are not open in my area right now, Or is that also a big NO?

Uh, no.

The trunked system is property of the school. It would essentially be trespassing. Some states refer to this as "theft of services" and people have been prosecuted for it.

The licensee is the -only- one who can grant permission to add radios to the system. Without that permission, you'd be transmitting without a license.

Depending on the type of trunked system, they may have it locked down well enough that you couldn't do it anyway.

If the system has a decent administrator, you could end up with your radio bricked.

Please don't do that.

 

[kayn1n32008]

If you want to play with trunking, look at DMR. Motorola Capacity Plus trunking specifically.

It is basically like LTR, it does not have a continuous control channel. It offers dynamic timeslot assignment. The XPR8300 repeaters are Cap+ single site capable, and are pretty cheap these days. You could likely sell your APX and buy one. The XPR8400 offers Cap+ single site and Cap+ multi site.

Cap+ is easy to set up, and needs no other equipment than the repeater to operate in Cap+ mode. If you want to expand from one repeater to two at the same site, all you need is a 100mbps switch and two cat 5 jumpers, and some programming modification. Plus the Rf plumbing to have two repeaters on the same antenna. Another option would be to have a VHF repeater and a UHF repeater at the same site.

For small networks, Cap+ is a really useful trunking format.

If you put it on an LMR pair, you can even play with encryption as well

Mobiles and portables are inexpensive if you use Gen 1(XPR4xxx mobiles & 6xxx portables) subscribers. they are cheap on the secondary market. You should have no issue finding used XPR6350 with battery and charger for $100-150 shipped to your door.

V16 build 828 CPS can program the radios and repeater. The mobile cable can be made from an old USB cable and a 20 pin accessory connector kit. The mobile cable will also program the repeater. You can buy a $20-$30 aftermarket portable cable shipped to your door. V16 build 828 operates fine on win 10 and win 7 machines.

 

[mmckenna]

Yes, and I have checked with everyone I probably need to,

OK, posted the same time you were.

By "everyone", hopefully that means the licensee. The FCC rules are abundantly clear on this. It doesn't matter who tells you it's "OK", unless that person is the licensee, you would not be legal.

Depending on the type of system, you'd need a system key and you'd need a valid radio ID assigned by the system administrator.

 

[ferryfan_ray]

Thanks to everyone for the answers, much appreciated

 

[rescue161]

Plus the central controller, but a lot of those suffered from leaky capacitors.

Not to mention the backplanes on these older controllers will more than likely develop "opens" or micro cracks once they are powered down and the foil traces cool down and "shrink."

When we transitioned from our old SmartNet system in 2014, the Motorola engineers warned us that if we powered down the system that it would probably never work again due to the micro cracks on the backplane of the controllers.

 

[bill4long]

Nobody asked, so I will:

Why in the bloody heck do you want to make your own personal trunking system?

If you have to ask how to do it, A) you probably shouldn't try to do it yourself, and B) you probably don't need one.

I don't know where you live, but unless your're out in some remote wilderness, there are probably several trunking systems in your area you can lease time on if you really really just gotta be on a trunking system.

 

[jaspence]

Getting permission from the school district and having the FCC agree could be two different things.