PL / DCS Tone not included in Amateur Radio Downloads

[kd2edx]

I've been trying to update my radio using the radio reference database. When downloading the CSV file from Radio Reference the Transmit Tone (PL or DCS) is not included in the CSV file. The only time when a tone is there is when there is a receive tone. Since I am programming my radio for Amateur use it would be really helpful to have the transmit tones in the downloaded files. I have also attempted to import directly using the RT Systems software and am getting the same result.

Anyone else having this problem? Does anyone have a solution other than manually putting in the transmit PL Tone or DCS Codes?

Thank you!

 

[w2lie]

I just looked at the Nassau County Repeater list, and it looks like there isn't any Tone Out information for any of the repeaters in Nassau, just tone In. I'm not sure why the values are being flipped or not included with the CSV dump file. (I didn't check to verify)

Have you tried using RepeaterBook.com to build your CSV files? I use theirs for programing my ham radios and just finished programming a new Anytone 878 this week using their CSV downloads.

 

[wa8pyr]

I just looked at the Nassau County Repeater list, and it looks like there isn't any Tone Out information for any of the repeaters in Nassau, just tone In. I'm not sure why the values are being flipped or not included with the CSV dump file. (I didn't check to verify)

Have you tried using RepeaterBook.com to build your CSV files? I use theirs for programing my ham radios and just finished programming a new Anytone 878 this week using their CSV downloads.

Tone Out isn't always shown on ham repeaters in the RRDB (or RepeaterBook, for that matter). Frequently submissions come in which don't specify whether the submitted tone is input only, or both input and output; when an admin asks for clarification, a typical response has been "that's the tone to get in" and the submitter doesn't know if it's transmitted. In addition, for whatever reason some repeater trustees don't transmit the PL tone.

If the repeaters in Nassau all use PL for both transmit and receive, by all means submit that so the RRDB can be updated.

I've been working on an updated ICS-217 form for Ohio ham radio repeaters using the RRDB and RepeaterBook as my starting point, then verifying each repeater as I travel around the state; I'm finding that quite a few frequencies are listed in RepeaterBook which either don't exist or are a different format than what's listed. A big part of the problem is clubs which took advantage of the "bargain" when Yaesu was dumping Fusion repeaters on the market at $500 a pop; they're now either Fusion only or are dual-mode, but the changes were never submitted to online databases.

I won't even get into how insane it was for groups to trash perfectly functioning 100 watt GE Mastr II or Motorola Micor repeaters in favor of the Fusion repeaters, which can't do more than about 10 watts continuous duty without burning up.

Update: Just for giggles I downloaded the local CSV file of all identified frequencies, and it only shows Tone Out, not Tone In. Never noticed it before as I usually copy and paste only what I need directly from the web page into a spreadsheet, edit that and create a CSV from it. I'll have to see if that can be changed for the ham frequencies.

To the OP: what radio and software are you using? I recently was building a codeplug for my ID52A and had no end of trouble importing a clean CSV file into the Icom software.

 

[kd2edx]

My concern was with the Tone In. I want to be able to key the amateur radio repeaters using that data from Radio Reference.

I typically use RT Systems software to program my radios that vary from Yaesu to Kenwood. I've used data from RFinder, Radio Reference, and Repeater Book to program my radios. What I was trying to do was build out scan groups based on counties which RadioReference makes really easy to do.

 

[wa8pyr]

I sat down recently and tried direct download with the programming software. I tried RT Systems (for the Icom ID52A, ID5100 and Kenwood THD74A), the Icom and Kenwood "house" software for those radios, and Chirp; of these, the only one which supports direct download from RR is Chirp, which itself doesn't even appear to support separate TX and RX tones.

I've asked that the Tone In field be added to CSV exports. In the meantime, you'll have to copy the desired data from the database web page manually and paste it into a spreadsheet, then edit it to the needed format and export as CSV so the RT Systems software can use it (I've been doing it this way for years, works fine).

 

[kd2edx]

Thank you all for the feedback. It does confirm the the Tone In is not included in the downloads or direct imports. I have also been in contact with RT Systems regarding the issue and they see the same. I am sure they will need to do a software update if the Tone In field is added to the data that is sent when a request is made.

 

[nd5y]

Chirp supports split tones only on certain radios.

On some radios that are capable of split tones (like the FT-7800R) the Chrip "driver" for that radio doesn't work properly.

Chirp's CSV format doesn't work properly with split tones (and some other things) even though the radio might support it and Chirp might be able to upload and download the radio and save split tones to an .img file.

 

[wa8pyr]

Just an update... with the rollout of the new RRDB2.0 format, the county CSV downloads now have both input and output PL tones. You'll have to download the CSV for the entire county and delete everything but the ham frequencies, but it's a big step up from before.

My next ask will be for an amateur-specific CSV download. Keep your fingers crossed.

 

[ko6jw_2]

Just a few thoughts:

The use of DCS is rare in amateur radio. This is regrettable but true.
Many repeaters have no PL on the output.
A few have no tone on the input. This is increasingly rare due to crowded bands.
Most ham radios can't do split tones. The input and output are generally the same.
You don't need PL decode to listen or talk through a repeater.
The RR database is not very complete. No listings for my county.
Repeater Book is a better source.
Local club websites are also good sources.
Some repeaters are closed, inactive or rarely used. Local knowledge is valuable. Listen before talking.

 

[blantonl]

Just an update... with the rollout of the new RRDB2.0 format, the county CSV downloads now have both input and output PL tones. You'll have to download the CSV for the entire county and delete everything but the ham frequencies, but it's a big step up from before.

My next ask will be for an amateur-specific CSV download. Keep your fingers crossed.

We could probably make this happen. 😂

 

[wa8pyr]

Just a few thoughts:

The use of DCS is rare in amateur radio. This is regrettable but true.
Many repeaters have no PL on the output.
A few have no tone on the input. This is increasingly rare due to crowded bands.
Most ham radios can't do split tones. The input and output are generally the same.

Pretty broad generalization. Most repeaters in my neck of the woods both encode and decode (again due to crowded bands), some use multiple receive sites with split PL to avoid the complexity of a voter, some use DPL. It just depends on where you are.

We want for the database to be as complete as possible with the information necessary to program a radio, no matter where the user may be.

The RR database is not very complete. No listings for my county.
Repeater Book is a better source.

We're hoping to change this, but it depends on submissions. If there are no listings for your county, why don't you submit them?

Local club websites are also good sources.

Again, not in my experience. If a club even has a web page, it often hasn't been updated in a very long time, and the repeater info is inaccurate and/or outdated. Other clubs use Facebook, which increasing numbers of people refuse to use.