Please don't put this information here!

[ka3jjz]

I just broke down an article that had decryption information for some encrypted talkgroups For obvious reasons, I will not be posting the article here, but will pass the info to Bob for further research

This kind of information should NEVER be in our wiki! It could cause serious legal implications. Besides, the wiki is public - not private - and after a page is fixed it will become part of the internet just like any other website.

The information has been purged.

Thanks for your future cooperation...Mike

 

[wtp]

i am OK with this.
it would be a shame to loose all of this.

 

[Starcom21]

Are you talking about the Key ID information? I see it on DSD+, and I think someone may have submitted it once. It may have been entered in the wiki.

I assume having the KeyID actually does the general public no good, as much as it does for any educated scanner listener. (So there is need to post it anywhere)

From research, it also appears you can't do anything with it. It's just a directory for lookup on an encrypted ID.

It also in another wiki article, seems to have been there for 13 years.

 

[ka3jjz]

If it's in another article, please remove it. I'd rather not have anything like that anywhere. If it's a directory for a lookup it's as good as having the actual ID on an encrypted ID.

Thanks for pointing this out...Mike

 

[Enjoi19]

Are you talking about the Key ID information? I see it on DSD+, and I think someone may have submitted it once. It may have been entered in the wiki.

I assume having the KeyID actually does the general public no good, as much as it does for any educated scanner listener. (So there is need to post it anywhere)

Fairly certain as well the ID is absolutely useless in any degree of “decryption”. We have discussed the KeyIDs that appear in DSDPlus in our provincial forum as a method to help identify active encrypted talk groups users. Our very active group of (excellent) Ontario moderators have never flagged it as an issue.

 

[WX9RLT]

Seems like if you mention the "E" word, its not allowed period on RR.
Things that make you go hmm.....

It is radio related, correct?

And RR forums and wiki's, are for radio related TOPICS, correct?

And the big ol "E" word, is a part of the radio hobby, correct?

Please, correct me if I am wrong...

If you are so worried about legal actions, then why have RR in the first place?
Because there have been many topics, you let go that have been racist and a lot more controversial than the "E" word on the wikis and forums.

I enjoy RR, it is a place for open discussions about the radio hobby.
Which should include EVERYTHING about the radio hobby.

Please show us the laws, that you are worried about, that is illegal for discussing the "E" word
I will wait...

Help us all learn, why you can discuss one topic, but not another.
And then say it may bring " cause serious legal implications"

Where has 1 person been arrested for talking about the "E" word?
What " cause serious legal implications" are there for freedom of speech?
Knowledge is not illegal...
An article about DECRYPTION, is not illegal.
Nor would it cause any "serious legal implications"
Other than making someone who is for encryption, MAD based on personal opinions, than legal reasons.

Discussing decryption and keys, is not illegal.
If it is, I would like to see where Freedom of Speech is illegal?

Based on your logic, the whole WIKI could cause "serious legal implications"
Because it has info. on Frequencies, UID's, TG's, PL's, etc....

What is different, other than its the big ol "E" word, that discusses decryption?

Based on your logic:
Decryption would include PL tones and other stuff, back in the day.
And yet, it is posted all over RR.

 

[KevinC]

Seems like if you mention the "E" word, its not allowed period on RR.

Proof? And the word is ENCRYPTION. Oh no! I'm going to get banned!!!

 

[AK9R]

Seems like if you mention the "E" word, its not allowed period on RR.

You are incorrect. It's ok to talk about encryption. It's ok to identify which systems or talkgroups are encrypted. It's ok to discuss which encryptions methods are used. OTOH, it is our policy to refer any forum discussions linking encryption with live streaming to this thread. Why? Because conversations about encryption and live streaming usually end up in arguments and usually result in drubbing the deceased equine.

It is radio related, correct?

And RR forums and wiki's, are for radio related TOPICS, correct?

And the big ol "E" word, is a part of the radio hobby, correct?

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Please, correct me if I am wrong...

See above.

If you are so worried about legal actions, then why have RR in the first place?

That's a decision for the RadioReference owner, Lindsay Blanton, to make. It's not a topic for debate. Lindsay owns the bat, the ball, and the ball field. We play by his rules.

Because there have been many topics, you let go that have been racist and a lot more controversial than the "E" word on the wikis and forums.

If you see a racist post, report it for the moderators to investigate and act upon, if necessary. We are not against controversy...as long as it follows the forum rules.

Please show us the laws, that you are worried about, that is illegal for discussing the "E" word

Myself, and the other moderators and staff members, don't have to show you anything. It's Lindsay's forum. We play by his rules.

Help us all learn, why you can discuss one topic, but not another.

If you have a problem with the rules or forum moderation, here's how you deal with it: Complaints Toward Moderator Activity

If it is, I would like to see where Freedom of Speech is illegal?

Ah, yes, the old "Freedom of Speech" or "1st Amendment" argument. Please read the 1st Amendment. It only prohibits Congress from making laws abridging your freedom of speech. The 1A has no impact on private enterprises...like RadioReference.

I'm going to talk to Lindsay about posting encryption keys in the Wiki. Hold your horses, your water, or my beer until I get an answer.

 

[WX9RLT]

Proof? And the word is ENCRYPTION. Oh no! I'm going to get banned!!!

Least you understand things.

Because the OP seems to not.

Decryption = Frequencies, UID's, TG's, PL's, etc....
Back in the day.

Key ID's are the same concept, just from this era.

If the OP is going to get mad about a wiki article about decrypting.
Thinking it can cause serious legal implications.
I would like to know what is different from a Key ID, then a frequency, PL tone, TG, UID, Input, etc...

Because based on his logic, the whole WIKI could cause serious legal issues.

Back in the day, you had to "decrypt"
frequency, PL tone, TG, UID, Input, etc...

Not trying to stir the pot, just trying to understand.
Because he used the justification of serious legal problems, as his excuse.
When based in that excuse, the whole RR site, forum and wiki could at some point be a legal issue.

 

[buddrousa]

@WX9RLT
Post #8 answers your question
If you do not like it you are free to leave.

 

[KevinC]

I'm going to talk to Lindsay about posting encryption keys in the Wiki. Hold your horses, your water, or my beer until I get an answer.

The key variable would be a bad idea. Key ID, no one cares.

 

[AK9R]

Least you understand things.

Just stop.

Back in the day, you had to "decrypt"
frequency, PL tone, TG, UID, Input, etc...

That's decoding, not decrypting.

Not trying to stir the pot, just trying to understand.

You obviously are stirring the pot.

Because he used the justification of serious legal problems, as his excuse.
When based in that excuse, the whole RR site, forum and wiki could at some point be a legal issue.

I see an easy fix to your problem.

 

[WX9RLT]

You are incorrect. It's ok to talk about encryption. It's ok to identify which systems or talkgroups are encrypted. It's ok to discuss which encryptions methods are used. OTOH, it is our policy to refer any forum discussions linking encryption with live streaming to this thread. Why? Because conversations about encryption and live streaming usually end up in arguments and usually result in drubbing the deceased equine.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

See above.

That's a decision for the RadioReference owner, Lindsay Blanton, to make. It's not a topic for debate. Lindsay owns the bat, the ball, and the ball field. We play by his rules.

If you see a racist post, report it for the moderators to investigate and act upon, if necessary. We are not against controversy...as long as it follows the forum rules.

Myself, and the other moderators and staff members, don't have to show you anything. It's Lindsay's forum. We play by his rules.

If you have a problem with the rules or forum moderation, here's how you deal with it: Complaints Toward Moderator Activity

Ah, yes, the old "Freedom of Speech" or "1st Amendment" argument. Please read the 1st Amendment. It only prohibits Congress from making laws abridging your freedom of speech. The 1A has no impact on private enterprises...like RadioReference.

I'm going to talk to Lindsay about posting encryption keys in the Wiki. Hold your horses, your water, or my beer until I get an answer.

Thank you
Not trying to stir the pot.
Just think based on the logic the OP posted.
And the excuse given, was wrong. Nothing illegal about discussing decryption or keys.

I understand, it all comes down to Lindsey.

But keys are the same thing as PL tones, TG's, UID's, etc...
Just a different form used in the radio hobby.

 

[KevinC]

Least you understand things.

Because the OP seems to not.

Decryption = Frequencies, UID's, TG's, PL's, etc....
Back in the day.

Key ID's are the same concept, just from this era.

Something has to first be encrypted to be decrypted. Frequencies, TG's PL's don't fall into that category and neither do key ID's. A key ID does absolutely nothing for you.

Least (sic) you understand things.

 

[WX9RLT]

Something has to first be encrypted to be decrypted. Frequencies, TG's PL's don't fall into that category and neither do key ID's. A key ID does absolutely nothing for you.

Least (sic) you understand things.

True, I do understand that part.

But isn't that what a police scanner did back in the 80's?
The ONLY difference, different form of mode.

 

[WX9RLT]

I guess I see things from a different point of view than most.
A scanner back in the 70's, 80's, 90's, did the same thing what PC's do today.
And whhat the OP is mad about.

Just it is a different form of mode now .
Back then it was decoding PL, Inputs, etc.. .

Jump forward to 2024, same concept, but it is now KEY ID's
Obviously my point of view, is not the favorable one, LOL
Just trying to understand and learn why the OP got mad about something that has been going on for decades.

 

[blantonl]

If it's in another article, please remove it. I'd rather not have anything like that anywhere. If it's a directory for a lookup it's as good as having the actual ID on an encrypted ID.

Thanks for pointing this out...Mike

Ok, hold on a minute here. Mike, you can't unilaterally make up a policy and start censoring data. You're not the Wiki Admin anymore. you can't say "I'd rather not have" and then make it so.

A Key ID is simply an identifier for an encryption key, and no where have I seen where an actual encryption key was posted in the wiki. A "directory for a lookup" is harmless and is OK to be posted in the Wiki. Encryption Key IDs can help identify which agency is using a frequency and talkgroup based on the unique ID used for the key used across multiple frequencies and talkgroups. I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of encryption keys, encryption Key IDs etc.

Please work with the current Wiki admin (AK9R) on policy items if you have questions or concerns before unilaterally taking it upon yourself to set policy.

 

[AK9R]

The Great Blantoni has spoken.

The information as been "unpurged".

This issue is settled.

 

[WX9RLT]

Ok, hold on a minute here. Mike, you can't unilaterally make up a policy and start censoring data. You're not the Wiki Admin anymore. you can't say "I'd rather not have" and then make it so.

A Key ID is simply an identifier for an encryption key, and no where have I seen where an actual encryption key was posted in the wiki. A "directory for a lookup" is harmless and is OK to be posted in the Wiki. Encryption Key IDs can help identify which agency is using a frequency and talkgroup based on the unique ID used for the key used across multiple frequencies and talkgroups. I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of encryption keys, encryption Key IDs etc.

Please work with the current Wiki admin (AK9R) on policy items if you have questions or concerns before unilaterally taking it upon yourself to set policy.

Thank you Lindsay,

That is what I was trying to point out.

 

[ka3jjz]

I apologize to all for overstepping. However I still believe that we need to be more careful about putting such information anywhere that it could cause us problems.

Bye

Mike