Programmer and P25 trunking

[ElroyJetson]

Back in February 2008, I was at the Las Vegas IWCE show where several vendors arranged a live P25 trunking demo on the show floor. It demonstrated full voice interoperability between all the usual brands of P25 radios (in trunking mode, and I verified this) in addition to IP and cellular interconnections.

Raytheon was providing the switch gear but all the radio gear was from every possible manufacturer. Both the site and the subscriber equipment.

After the demo I spoke directly to several of the people involved who ran the demo and expressed my belief that one thing that will be needed is to develop a common programming format for all subscriber equipment. With every company having its own unique radio programming software, there are obvious training and translation issues for the radio programmer who has to deal with multiple brands
of radio equipment in the same system.

I suggested that perhaps the thing to do is get all manufacturers to agree on a standardized
programming format which could be as simple as an Excel spreadsheet in a defined template, which
each manufacturer implements as an import/export function in their own programming software.

The people I spoke to about this thought it was a very good idea, and one that had been mentioned
before by systems engineers who are familiar with the different platforms and software.

My guess is that this idea will eventually be adopted. And maybe in the process, the system key
limitation will either be dropped by everybody or adopted by everybody. It seems like it would HAVE
to be one or the other.


Elroy

 

[Thunderknight]

In the scenario you described below, either county would just need to contact Motorola (the maker of the mobiles/portables that need to go on the system), and request a system key for County A's system (doesn't matter who made it, as long as it's P25). Motorola would probably contact County A (if it wasn't them making the request), inform them of County B's request, and ask for the system ID (as that's all they need to make one of their system keys). If County A approves, and provides the system ID, Motorola could then provide a system key for the Harris P25 system. Harris (the maker of the system) would have absolutely nothing to do with this process.

Actually in that case the Harris county would be best to contact Motorola at the very start and buy/request a key for "future use" so they have it for any incoming "Motorola users".

 

[pforbes]

Motorola won't give you a System Key for a System they did not sell nor provide. Harris County IS SOL.

 

[ElroyJetson]

But then again....Motorola wants to sell radios. If by refusing to provide a system key, they create a situation where none of their dealers can sell any radios to a specific system customer, then they're only hurting themselves.

It's my belief that Motorola would generate a system key as required in order to get the business it facilitates.


Elroy

 

[pforbes]

You'd think.

 

[gesucks]

Motorola won't give you a System Key for a System they did not sell nor provide. Harris County IS SOL.

100% not true

 

[gesucks]

Green Thumb,

The info I've received says that the 'Trunked' P25 Standard is NOT signed off on as yet, just in the dream (hope) stage. Only the CAI. Hence, the Syskey problem.

Patrick

Again 100 % not true. Take a look at the TIA standards or the US federally run CAP program

 

[pforbes]

Want a recording of the conversation I had with Moto where the word NO was used several times to me, MOL member in good standing overseeing a very expensive 18 site SZ System?

As well, the second item was answered right here on this board at the outset of this thread.

Patrick

 

[rashley]

pforbes, I am holding in my hand a Motorola Master ASK and 5 Dongles for a Harris P25 System. It CAN be done if you talk to the RIGHT people.

Randy Ashley
System Admin

Want a recording of the conversation I had with Moto where the word NO was used several times to me, MOL member in good standing overseeing a very expensive 18 site SZ System?

As well, the second item was answered right here on this board at the outset of this thread.

Patrick

 

[pforbes]

Advanced Sys Keys

pforbes, I am holding in my hand a Motorola Master ASK and 5 Dongles for a Harris P25 System. It CAN be done if you talk to the RIGHT people.

Randy Ashley
System Admin

Holy cow! How on earth? I give. What's the secret?

 

[tbiggums]

They just made an ASK for whatever system ID the Harris system uses, just as they would have done if it were a Motorola system. Not difficult at all...

 

[pforbes]

It's the 'How' I'm after. How and Who provides them? How does one go about it?

 

[tbiggums]

Surely a Motorola employee used Motorola's "internal use only" ASK generation software utility to program the ASK USB device. It's the same process that would have happened if the P25 trunked system was made by Motorola.

 

[greenthumb]

If you're buying Motorola radios to put on the Harris system, start with the sales representative who sold you the radios. It will be hard to use them on that system without a system key to program them!

 

[pforbes]

Sorry for the giant pause in this discussion. Somewhat distracted by that damned G20 mess.
I'm back now.
Yes, the Key is a problem. I've found that as Keygen is all over the world now, a hard key was developed for the Moto RSS to require. Getting one has not been easy. I ended up raising such a stink that someone shipped me one for my little Harris test System just to make me go away.
It worked! Haleluia!

Now if only Mississauga Harris would talk to Lynchburg, they might actually get my Moto SU to work right on their stuff.

ps Their Console gui sucks from what I've seen of it.

 

[wireless_friendly]

Guys,

What is the latest version of ProGrammer which do not require license key?

I have R18B02. I don't see any mentions about 'Conventional' in this program. It's usual ProGrammer and can do system programming?

And it does not ask for any licenses. Correct?

 

[Radioman96p71]

Yes, R18B02 is the ltest version without computer licensing.

No, it will NOT do P25 TRUNKING, only P25 conventional.

R19 was the first version that fully supports P25 trunking. The licensing was added by popular request BEFORE p25 trunking was added to satisfy govt agencies limiting the ability of just anybody to program any radio on a P25 network.

 

[wireless_friendly]

Yes, R18B02 is the ltest version without computer licensing.

Ok, thanks!

No, it will NOT do P25 TRUNKING, only P25 conventional.

I am not interesting in P25 Trunking, I asked about EDACS trunking. Sorry, I forgot to say about.

R19 was the first version that fully supports P25 trunking. The licensing was added by popular request BEFORE p25 trunking was added to satisfy govt agencies limiting the ability of just anybody to program any radio on a P25 network.

Ok. But just interesting what does meant this quote?

5b) Release 17.
- Added P25 Trunked support for M7100, P7100, and P5100 radios.

It's from ProGrammer R17/R18 readme.

P25 trunking limited support (test implementation & etc.)?

 

[Radioman96p71]

There was a lot of uproar about by legitimate law enforcement and radio shops about how easy it was to obtain and use ProGrammer. So when P25 trunking came out and M/ACom had to add a lot of code to the program anyways, they added machine-specific licensing to it to help ease the minds of its customers. I have a copy of the email sent out by M/A Com here somewhere.

If you take a look at R18B02, there is no support for P25 trunking. There is a tab there but the options are all greyed out and cannot be selected. The code for it is not in the software. It seems they might have added the interface for it, but didnt actually write the capability into the program.

 

[wireless_friendly]

Ok, thanks for explanation.