Programming radios to TX on police/fire without permission

[N1GTL]

I remember reading through the forums a while back and seeing a FEDERAL law that addresses programming radios. It dealt with whether or not someone can legally PROGRAM a radio to transmit on a police, fire or EMS frequency. I am not talking about transmitting. I know this topic can get heated with different points of view, if there is an emergency and so on. I am not looking to stir anything up and I am not asking for any individual opinions.

Does anyone have the FCC rule that addresses the PROGRAMMING of radios?

Thanks

 

[N4DES]

It depends...are you talking about trunking or conventional and, being I see your a ham, the programming of amateur radios in the Part 90 spectrum?

Mark

 

[wylie_k]

Technically, I dont think it is illegal to program anything in your radio, but transmitting on any frequency (public safety or commercial) without a FCC license to do so is illegal.

 

[MississippiPI]

I'm a volunteer FF here where I live---I have a high band VHF radio that both transmits and receives---if out of my immediate area and I don't have cell phone coverage and it's an emergency I will key up on that dept's EMS dispatch, advise them of the situtation and do what I can to assist.

Be safe

 

[scansalot52]

Are you thinking of this?

"Federal Preemption of State
and Local Laws Concerning Amateur
Operator Use of Transceivers
Capable of Reception Beyond
Amateur Service Frequency
Allocations"

Here is the link to that document: http://www.pcarc.net/Downloads/pr91-36.txt

Your post says TX, then in the body you say you're not talking about TX. This document doesn't address the TX issue as I recall.

 

[wylie_k]

Yea, as far as EMS, if you have an interlocal agreement for assistance, and it is written in the agreement, you may transmit on their frequency.
However, someone would have to file a complaint with the FCC for anything to happen. Then they would just send you a letter to cease radio traffic on that frequency.

 

[b7spectra]

ANYONE can program a radio with the right software & equipment. USING that radio on any system with the capacity to transmit is another story. Personally, I would not want to be questioned by a LEO for having an XTS5000 in my posession that actually keys up on their system.

 

[BaLa]

ANYONE can program a radio with the right software & equipment. USING that radio on any system with the capacity to transmit is another story. Personally, I would not want to be questioned by a LEO for having an XTS5000 in my posession that actually keys up on their system.

unless its FPP on a Conventional System

lol..

I wouldn't recommend it, I used to use one of my radios to scan the local VHF Freqs.
I did have TX disabled. You don't want somebody else getting a hold of the radio and doing something dumb.

 

[SkipSanders]

Technically, I dont think it is illegal to program anything in your radio, but transmitting on any frequency (public safety or commercial) without a FCC license to do so is illegal.

§ 90.427 Precautions against unauthorized
operation.

(a) Each transmitter shall be so installed
and protected that it is not accessible
to or capable of operation by
persons other than those duly authorized
by and under the control of the licensee.
Provisions of this part authorizing
certain unlicensed persons to operate
stations, or authorizing unattended
operation of stations in certain
circumstances, shall not be construed
to change or diminish in any respect
the responsibility of station licensees
to maintain control over the stations
licensed to them (including all transmitter
units thereof), or for the proper
functioning and operation of those stations
and transmitter units in accordance
with the terms of the licenses of
those stations.

(b) Except for frequencies used in accordance
with § 90.417, no person shall
program into a transmitter frequencies
for which the licensee using the transmitter
is not authorized.

Note section b. Yes, it IS a violation of FCC regs to program a radio transmit frequencies in the Part 90 services that the licensee is not licensed to transmit on. (Or allowed by other rules, such as the ones about low-power use on certain frequencies)

 

[hill]

I use a few commercial VHF radios to transmit in the 2 meter ham band and for USCG Auxiliary tasks. The public safety stuff is programmed into the radios as receive only with no transmit frequency. In doing this there is no way the radios will key up.

 

[trace1]

I am not talking about transmitting. I know this topic can get heated with different points of view, if there is an emergency and so on. I am not looking to stir anything up and I am not asking for any individual opinions.

The "just in case" scenario, eh?

Just in case there is an emergency and you have to call the Police/Fire/EMS on "their" frequency...

While you may or may not suffer any repercussions from your "emergency transmission" it probably wouldn't be worth your time or troubles having to explain why you, an unlicensed, unauthorized user, were transmitting on their frequency.

Even if you're out in the middle of nowhere, where cell phone service is unavailable or unreliable etc. there may be other, better alternatives to make that emergency contact.

 

[N1GTL]

Thank you! This is what I was looking for...not all the opinions.

§ 90.427 Precautions against unauthorized
operation.

(a) Each transmitter shall be so installed
and protected that it is not accessible
to or capable of operation by
persons other than those duly authorized
by and under the control of the licensee.
Provisions of this part authorizing
certain unlicensed persons to operate
stations, or authorizing unattended
operation of stations in certain
circumstances, shall not be construed
to change or diminish in any respect
the responsibility of station licensees
to maintain control over the stations
licensed to them (including all transmitter
units thereof), or for the proper
functioning and operation of those stations
and transmitter units in accordance
with the terms of the licenses of
those stations.

(b) Except for frequencies used in accordance
with § 90.417, no person shall
program into a transmitter frequencies
for which the licensee using the transmitter
is not authorized.

Note section b. Yes, it IS a violation of FCC regs to program a radio transmit frequencies in the Part 90 services that the licensee is not licensed to transmit on. (Or allowed by other rules, such as the ones about low-power use on certain frequencies)

 

[zz0468]

Thank you! This is what I was looking for...not all the opinions.

You should know by now that when one asks what, arguably, is a dumb question here, the answer is going to come complete with diatribes and opinions, and the occasional rant sprinkled in.

 

[k8tmk]

One other point. Even if you ARE authorized to transmit on a police, fire, or EMS frequency, it is not legal to use a radio that has not been type-accepted for that purpose. I don't know of any amateur radios that are type accepted for use on non-amateur frequencies.

It's a rather strange twist that you CAN use a public service radio to transmit on amateur radio frequencies (if you have an amateur radio license), but you can't use an amateur radio to transmit on other frequencies.

Randy

 

[K8TEK]

It's a rather strange twist that you CAN use a public service radio to transmit on amateur radio frequencies (if you have an amateur radio license), but you can't use an amateur radio to transmit on other frequencies.

That is because amateur radios don't need to be type accepted. Look how many people build their own rigs. BTW, a commercial radio is going to work 100% better then any hammy garbage.

 

[DaveNF2G]

...and then there are the hams who look down their noses at their own hobby, like the above.

To the OP:
A ham who wants regulatory info should know that the FCC.gov website is the place to start, not a hobbyist bulletin board. It is much more accurate and faster than wading through opinions and guesses.

 

[N1GTL]

...and then there are the hams who look down their noses at their own hobby, like the above.

To the OP:
A ham who wants regulatory info should know that the FCC.gov website is the place to start, not a hobbyist bulletin board. It is much more accurate and faster than wading through opinions and guesses.

I did start at the FCC website but there is a bit much to go through....I asked for help from other hobbiests.

That's why I asked for the law, not opinions. But thanks for offering yours.... I really value it.

 

[musicman123]

Possession of Police & Fire Department Radio

I received recently from of all places a brand new Motorola PR400 Portable Radio. Apparently it was not so new as their was a 14 page service report from Motorola Commercial Series CPS. It seems that this radio has been programmed to receive and transmit on 27 different police, fire, and mutual aid frequencies. My question is 1) Is it illegal for me to posess this since I am not a licensed amature radio operator, 2) Is it illegal for me to sell this ie. Craigs List, Amazon, Ebay or out of my own store? 3) Is there any one I can legally sell this to? Any information or imput would be appreciated. Thank you!!

 

[W8RMH]

I received recently from of all places a brand new Motorola PR400 Portable Radio. Apparently it was not so new as their was a 14 page service report from Motorola Commercial Series CPS. It seems that this radio has been programmed to receive and transmit on 27 different police, fire, and mutual aid frequencies. My question is 1) Is it illegal for me to posess this since I am not a licensed amature radio operator, 2) Is it illegal for me to sell this ie. Craigs List, Amazon, Ebay or out of my own store? 3) Is there any one I can legally sell this to? Any information or imput would be appreciated. Thank you!!

If I were you, in this case, as a store owner, I would seek legal advice from an attorney and not a group of opinionated hobbyists.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (BlackBerry; U; BlackBerry 9780; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.8+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0.0.600 Mobile Safari/534.8+)

I received recently from of all places a brand new Motorola PR400 Portable Radio. Apparently it was not so new as their was a 14 page service report from Motorola Commercial Series CPS. It seems that this radio has been programmed to receive and transmit on 27 different police, fire, and mutual aid frequencies. My question is 1) Is it illegal for me to posess this since I am not a licensed amature radio operator, 2) Is it illegal for me to sell this ie. Craigs List, Amazon, Ebay or out of my own store? 3) Is there any one I can legally sell this to? Any information or imput would be appreciated. Thank you!!

If I were you, in this case, as a store owner, I would seek legal advice from an attorney and not a group of opinionated hobbyists.

Take it to a moto shop and have the transmit freqs removed. Problem solved.