properly using multi-site trunking

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c5corvette

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I hate to revive and old thread so I will reference one here before I ask my questions.
http://forums.radioreference.com/uniden-scanners/160331-396xt-996xt-multi-site-question.html

So, I just bought a 396XT and I have a question maybe others can help with. Since the Uniden doesn’t have the ROAM feature that the GRE scanners do (where it scans the sites and locks on the strongest control channel it can find until such signal goes too weak) I am just at a loss on how multi-site systems are really supposed to work on the 396XT or if the only convenience is sharing a systems talkgroups among the associated sites?

Assuming I am not using the GPS features (since this is a handheld its just not convenient), I want to know what is the best way to program a multi-site system like a statewide system into 396XT?

In my old 396T I got comfortable loading 1 site per system or more often I was manually combining channels from all sites into a single site and system.

With the new 396XT, I find that creating a System with 100+ sites and trying to scan all 100 sites, it scans each site for a moment and then goes to the next and even when it finds a strong one it starts all over sequencing again, so that in the course of scanning 100+ sites while I hit on strong site a second later it may not be hearing any site when a call comes though on a TG affiliated to the site I was just decoding loud and clear – thus I am missing many calls.

*If I assign a quick key to each site as people suggest, I will run out of quick keys for each site, but I don’t know of a better or faster way to lock and unlock individual sites on the fly. Is this the only way to toggle on/off sites fast?

Also, (besides the long press HOLD manually) there doesnt seem to be logic built in, RSSI voting, or any other way to tell the 396XT to automatically camp onto the strongest site and stay there once it finds it?

That said, even in the 396XT, if I cram all the channels from all sites into a single site and single system it does actually ‘lock’ onto the first CC it can find (sometimes it’s the strongest, sometimes its not… but it stays on there until it that signal becomes weak) and thus I tend to miss less calls if I am in range of only one site anyway. I think I like this method best for when I am not moving, but I don’t know if there is a better method or not. Realizing, that if I do this and I am in range of other towers I could be missing conversations on TG’s that are not being monitored on a radio ‘affiliated’ to the tower I am listening to so its not ideal either.

What is the best / proper way to set up these huge multi-site systems in a 396XT in order to miss the least amount of activity? I want things to be as automatic as possible so that it needs to be looking at conversations coming from different places.

Maybe it doesn't scan the systems fast enough... in the post I reference, UPMan says it looks at each site for miliseconds, but it seems like it takes about 6 seconds to scroll through 90 sites that dont have signal and then on the one site that does find a CC it hangs there for only about 1 second and then starts to scroll through them all again and by that time I could have missed many calls. Have I not programmed something right is maybe why its taking so long to scan through all the systems?

Or, it seems maybe the scanner is not designed to actually handle multi-site trunking, but just to share talkgroups.

What am I missing here?

HELP
 

W6KRU

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Since you can hear only one site at a time, why would you want to scan non local sites that you can't hear? The roam feature of GRE is no piece of cake to use. I don't like it much.

On my 396XT, I put each site on it's own quick key. When I drive into the range of a different site, I turn off the old site and turn on the new site. That's only 2 key presses and a lot less trouble than messing with a non-working '"automatic" mode.
 

JoeyC

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Since you can hear only one site at a time, why would you want to scan non local sites that you can't hear? The roam feature of GRE is no piece of cake to use. I don't like it much.

On my 396XT, I put each site on it's own quick key. When I drive into the range of a different site, I turn off the old site and turn on the new site. That's only 2 key presses and a lot less trouble than messing with a non-working '"automatic" mode.

I agree 100% with this theory. Signal strength and decode can vary wildly when you are mobile and tinkering with settings that will never be perfect (setting thresholds on the GRE) cause more trouble then they are worth. Cant tell you how many times a control channel not optimal for the area I am in is the one the scanner is tracking. Even when you have a full 100% signal right now, a minute from now you may be going around a big building and lose that 100% briefly only to have the scanner lock in on a more distant control channel and be stuck on that when you should be listening to a more local tower.

MANUAL is the way to go. Multi-site in scanners, while a convenient option for some who want quick options leaves a lot to be desired, at least on some systems at this point.
 

c5corvette

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A manual toggle of sites might be the way to go if there were more quick keys available or if the system only has a few sites.

Is there any other way to quickly unlock, locked out sites - besides using quick keys?


THANKS,

PS. With 100+ sites, and the stupid names they give sites these days, how are you supposed to know which one to turn on anyway?
 

KE4ZNR

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With 100+ sites, and the stupid names they give sites these days, how are you supposed to know which one to turn on anyway?

We have a statewide Motorola Smartzone system here in NC called "VIPER".
I usually only program the VIPER sites geographically nearest to me.
Since I rarely head out to the western part of NC there is no need for me to program sites in that area.
I would recommend narrowing down the site pool to those nearest you. :)
In a pinch, With Control Channel only searching you can always search for a Control Channel if you find yourself far away from home.
Marshall KE4ZNR
 

RoninJoliet

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The messages about "multi-site " above are correct, my 396XT here in ILL on the Starcom 700/800 Digital system out performs the GRE500 on decode and especially in the mobile where the GRE overloads itself on cell towers and other signals...I have all the Starcom sites in SystemQK-28 and also the closest ones to my area in seperate site SQK's...That seperate site system works best...On my GRE500 i get alot of "flickering" of the TG and dropping out all over my home-20 but in the same spots the "automatic-decode of the Uniden 396XT works GREAT.....In the mobile the 396XT is very stable even in high "rf" areas...Your milege may vary on my report in your area but here on the south suburb of Chicago this is what works for me....
 

c5corvette

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We have a statewide Motorola Smartzone system here in NC called "VIPER".
I usually only program the VIPER sites geographically nearest to me.
Since I rarely head out to the western part of NC there is no need for me to program sites in that area.
I would recommend narrowing down the site pool to those nearest you. :)
In a pinch, With Control Channel only searching you can always search for a Control Channel if you find yourself far away from home.
Marshall KE4ZNR

Smartzone system implies that you can hear all TG traffic on all sites. That isnt the case in all of these larger P25 systems!
 

c5corvette

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How many sites are you in the range of on an average day?

Maybe 3 to 5 of them on a daily basis when around the office, but when I travel throughout the state it could be any or all of them throught the day.
 

KE4ZNR

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Smartzone system implies that you can hear all TG traffic on all sites. That isnt the case in all of these larger P25 systems!

Actually Smartzone implies that you will ONLY hear radio traffic
from radios affiliated to the site you are monitoring.
Otherwise a true wide area system such as VIPER would
collapse in minutes under the weight from all the users statewide.
Not to mention my friends in Charlotte do not need to hear where
the buses here in Wake County are.
Here in Wake County our part of the VIPER system operates
in a Simulcast format in which yes you will hear the same
traffic on all of the Wake County sites.
But Smartzone and Simulcast are two very different things.
Marshall KE4ZNR
 

KE4ZNR

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From the RR.com Wiki:

Monitoring a SmartZone system with a trunktracking scanner is the same process as monitoring any other Type II Smartnet system, except that you can only monitor one site at a time. For you to monitor a specific talkgroup on a SmartZone site, someone's radio must be affiliated to that specific site. Therefore, if you are monitoring talkgroup "POLICE-NORTH" on a site with no affiliated radios on that talkgroup, then you will not hear any communications on that talkgroup on that site.

Again from the RR.com Wiki:

Simulcast is not analagous to multiple site wide area networked trunking systems that use different frequencies at each site, however simulcast "cells" (several sites operating as one in a simulcast configuration) can be implemented in such systems.

We here in Wake County are a "simulcast cell" in the Statewide Smartzone system known as VIPER.
Marshall KE4ZNR
 

W6KRU

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Maybe 3 to 5 of them on a daily basis when around the office, but when I travel throughout the state it could be any or all of them throught the day.

That is a tough proposition. You will have to figure out a system that works for you. There is nothing 'automatic' on the market that can deal with that. Even if there was it would be impossible to listen to. Just to make it easier to listen to, I have split the county up into much smaller chunks so that I can listen to it. it never fails that the brush fire, the freeway chase, and the sinking boat all happen at the same time. Right now I am listening to a drug stakeout and a brushfire and I am about to turn off the stakeout because it is interfering with the fire traffic.
 

c5corvette

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Actually Smartzone implies that you will ONLY hear radio traffic
from radios affiliated to the site you are monitoring.

You're right, I explained it backwards.

Point is, I am only monitoring one site, I am likely missing other calls in the service area.
 

c5corvette

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That is a tough proposition. You will have to figure out a system that works for you. There is nothing 'automatic' on the market that can deal with that. Even if there was it would be impossible to listen to. Just to make it easier to listen to, I have split the county up into much smaller chunks so that I can listen to it. it never fails that the brush fire, the freeway chase, and the sinking boat all happen at the same time. Right now I am listening to a drug stakeout and a brushfire and I am about to turn off the stakeout because it is interfering with the fire traffic.

I guess you could say I have a system (method) that works for me - its dumping all the cc channels into one site and hope that it locks on the strongest one.

I was just wondering how everyone else did it and what seems to be most effective for missing the fewest calls?

I just learned about long HOLD press - so that may help me out a bit too.

Thanks all !!!
 

ofd8001

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If you remain in a given area most all of the time, you may want to put those sites that are within 30 miles or so (owing to transmitter horsepower) on one quick key and then all the others on a second quick key and lock it out. If you get out an about, then unlock that second quick key.

If you do a lot of roaming around, then your best bet is to connect a GPS unit to the scanner after programming all of the site locations. Then let the GPS function turn on and off the sites as you get close or away from the sites.

Multi-sites systems and the GPS feature are pretty much a hand-in-glove situation to get the very best scanning experience.
 
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