PSEC to RCS Successful Patch

[Peter_SD911]

Finally on 1-4-24 at 3:30 am...
The Riverside 700mhz Law system was successfully patched into the SD County RCS via North Law CMD.
This was a test to see if it worked for field units and dispatchers. RVC patched thru to SDSO unit 32-PS.

In the past the 2 systems would rely on the conventional "Clemars 800" or CALAW80" for chases, but it was a shoddy set-up and hard to field units to navigate thru the decks of the car radios.

Communications was a real pain in the butt. This should be much easier for everyone.
Best part...
It's unencrypted.

Scan Sexy in 2024!

 

[d119]

It's basically pointless, as whenever either agency roams out of range of their respective system, they've got to make changes to the radio in the car to get on something usable (a-la CALAW80).

That's nice that they have the patch capability, and it's useful for that small area of overlap between systems, but much more than that (pursuits, etc.) it's back to conventional.

Don't expect the LE mutual aid talk groups to stay in the clear forever.

 

[Peter_SD911]

Don't expect the LE mutual aid talk groups to stay in the clear forever

Encryption cost money.
I don't see any desire for the RCS users to encrypt the MA stuff since they would have to be a source for that expense.

All the SDG&E money is gone...not sure if DHS is cutting loose with any grant money.

Cities and counties are broke.
Just look at what happened with the Oceanside PD "encryption" project.
Not even fully strapped.

Show me the money.

 

[K6CDO]

Encryption cost money.
I don't see any desire for the RCS users to encrypt the MA stuff since they would have to be a source for that expense.

All the SDG&E money is gone...not sure if DHS is cutting loose with any grant money.

Cities and counties are broke.
Just look at what happened with the Oceanside PD "encryption" project.
Not even fully strapped.

Show me the money.

No money needed. Just programming.
(Yes, that is a logistical nightmare, but considering the number of times the RCS has done it in the last 6 years ...)

 

[Peter_SD911]

No money needed. Just programming.
(Yes, that is a logistical nightmare, but considering the number of times the RCS has done it in the last 6 years ...)

So those man hours programming radios are free?
is the RCS even fully staffed now days?
Maintaining encryption and providing encryption/equipment have plenty of cost involved as you (of all people) should know.

Over the last 23 years plenty of users have left RCS. Look at the list of talkgroups in 2000 compared to those today.
Less users means less revenue.

Those 600+SDG&E radios filled a big money void. Pretty sure all those school districts who left RCS had an impact on things. Years ago every vehicle in the public works, water/sanitation in my town had RCS radios.
At one point( year 2000) the City of Del Mar and Coronado had more RCS talk groups than paid city employees.
Now, none have radios. I'm sure that has had an impact...School busses in my town switched to Fisher Wireless because they got a much better deal than what RCS offered.

My point is nothing is free...and money is short.

Hope retirement is treating you well.

Scan Sexy
(Station X)

 

[kayn1n32008]

So those man hours programming radios are free?
is the RCS even fully staffed now days?
Maintaining encryption and providing encryption/equipment have plenty of cost involved as you (of all people) should know.

If the system currently has ANY secure talkgroups, then they are already equipped for encryption. If the system operator takes comm security seriously, they have both a KMF and the capability to Over The Air Re-key(OTAR) radios. They may also have the capability to Over The Air Program(OTAP);. Radio management makes pushing revised programming to subs pretty efficient. If they have a KMF, they probably already have a UKEK loaded in the subs, no need to physically touch ANY of the subscribers to add new encrypted interop talkgroups, greatly reducing the time and money to add secure talkgroups.

 

[d119]

So those man hours programming radios are free?
is the RCS even fully staffed now days?
Maintaining encryption and providing encryption/equipment have plenty of cost involved as you (of all people) should know.

Over the last 23 years plenty of users have left RCS. Look at the list of talkgroups in 2000 compared to those today.
Less users means less revenue.

Those 600+SDG&E radios filled a big money void. Pretty sure all those school districts who left RCS had an impact on things. Years ago every vehicle in the public works, water/sanitation in my town had RCS radios.
At one point( year 2000) the City of Del Mar and Coronado had more RCS talk groups than paid city employees.
Now, none have radios. I'm sure that has had an impact...School busses in my town switched to Fisher Wireless because they got a much better deal than what RCS offered.

My point is nothing is free...and money is short.

Hope retirement is treating you well.

Scan Sexy
(Station X)

Man... Who the heck are you pissed off at? SHEESH!

You'd better believe those MA talkgroups will end up encrypted. 100000000%. With patches to primary dispatch channels occurring and PII flying back and forth on the fly as part of major incidents that would use those talkgroups, your comments don't hold water. Listen to what CDO said - it's just programming.

I'm looking forward to moving my agencies talkgroups on RCS over to encryption. We're budgeting for new equipment in FY25, and I intend to slam the door shut just like everybody else. Attitudes like yours are just the icing on the cake.

I'd suggest you re-read all of your posts in this thread.

Station X? You know that's the Humane Society now, right?

 

[K6CDO]

So those man hours programming radios are free?

Of course not. But the cost is built into the subscriber fees.

is the RCS even fully staffed now days?

Last I heard, yes.

Maintaining encryption and providing encryption/equipment have plenty of cost involved as you (of all people) should know.

Yes, I do know. Again, all part of the subscription fees.

Over the last 23 years plenty of users have left RCS. Look at the list of talkgroups in 2000 compared to those today.
Less users means less revenue.

When we went through the processes of Rebanding and setting up the P25 system, we went through the list of talkgroups and eliminated any talkgroup that had no activity in the last 15 years. In other words, if it wasn't used during the critical incidents maxing the system load, we worked with the using agency and removed them. There was no cost savings to the users, as TGs were not charged for.

The Recession of 2008 had a big impact on participating agencies. Agencies also went through an evaluation of their radio requirements as the RCS participation agreement was renewed in 2015. Four School Districts elected to leave the RCS, with the migration to Fisher Wireless being paid for by Sprint / Nextel under Rebanding. This also was a 'win' for those districts that converted as they gained coverage when their busses leave San Diego County.

Those 600+SDG&E radios filled a big money void. Pretty sure all those school districts who left RCS had an impact on things. Years ago every vehicle in the public works, water/sanitation in my town had RCS radios.
At one point( year 2000) the City of Del Mar and Coronado had more RCS talk groups than paid city employees.
Now, none have radios. I'm sure that has had an impact...School busses in my town switched to Fisher Wireless because they got a much better deal than what RCS offered.

My point is nothing is free...and money is short.

The Next Generation RCS is doing just fine.

Hope retirement is treating you well.

Scan Sexy
(Station X)

I'm enjoying it a lot.

 

[Peter_SD911]

Man... Who the heck are you pissed off at? SHEESH!

You'd better believe those MA talkgroups will end up encrypted. 100000000%. With patches to primary dispatch channels occurring and PII flying back and forth on the fly as part of major incidents that would use those talkgroups, your comments don't hold water. Listen to what CDO said - it's just programming.

I'm looking forward to moving my agencies talkgroups on RCS over to encryption. We're budgeting for new equipment in FY25, and I intend to slam the door shut just like everybody else. Attitudes like yours are just the icing on the cake.

I'd suggest you re-read all of your posts in this thread.

Station X? You know that's the Humane Society now, right?

You mean to tell me Station X is no longer on VHF-Hi???
How will I ever follow the antics at Bldg 14?

Seriously...
A few members of the media already have full access to SDSO dispatch Nat City and Chula Vista , Tacs and most LE on the south RCS. I wonder if that radio has "JHOC" access.
Private live stream being provided via a "pool"radio that is supposedly set-up by a south bay city council member or admin staff member.
Pretty sure city council members or members of the city managers staff don't have CLETS clearance.

Media leaks abound!

How do you prevent that?
You gonna audit every radio ID on the south cell?

Scanning Sexy since 1974
(Missing the SDSO VHF "Blue" check-in at Gulf Atomic)

 

[d119]

You mean to tell me Station X is no longer on VHF-Hi???
How will I ever follow the antics at Bldg 14?

Seriously...
A few members of the media already have full access to SDSO dispatch Nat City and Chula Vista , Tacs and most LE on the south RCS. I wonder if that radio has "JHOC" access.
Private live stream being provided via a "pool"radio that is supposedly set-up by a south bay city council member or admin staff member.
Pretty sure city council members or members of the city managers staff don't have CLETS clearance.

Media leaks abound!

How do you prevent that?
You gonna audit every radio ID on the south cell?

Scanning Sexy since 1974
(Missing the SDSO VHF "Blue" check-in at Gulf Atomic)

I'll bet you just made a few friends spewing that kind of information all over the place. Also sounds like you've insinuated the Harbor PD is somehow involved? Or the USCG? Or both? It's a conspiracy, isn't it!

It's all fun and games until you get a subpoena. That's just an observation and a statement, nothing behind it.

You sound like a very disgruntled former County employee. I hope you're able to get whatever this source of anger and sarcasm is worked out in your life.

Must be rough out there. It'll be OK.

 

[d119]

I wish I could like my own post

 

[Peter_SD911]

I'll bet you just made a few friends spewing that kind of information all over the place. Also sounds like you've insinuated the Harbor PD is somehow involved? Or the USCG? Or both? It's a conspiracy, isn't it!

It's all fun and games until you get a subpoena. That's just an observation and a statement, nothing behind it.

You sound like a very disgruntled former County employee. I hope you're able to get whatever this source of anger and sarcasm is worked out in your life.

Must be rough out there. It'll be OK.

You may assume whatever you wish.

In the end...your "secure"system has fallen to the human element.

Maybe the USCG or the Port of San Diego need to do a full and complete audit of all radios, and who has access to them.
Better yet, audit every local city and county worker/administrator/cop and janitor who has access to all those backup/pool and extra radios sitting in storage at the various PD/SO Sub Station locations.
What happens to that agency issued radio when it goes on the charger (in my home) each night?
How to you know it's not streaming to the overnight " breaking news trackers"?

You can start with the Chief Administrator of the county...and work your way down. It should be free of cost (it's just programming right?)

Unreported missing radios IS a problem. How many radios have fallen into local drug cartel hands, that the RCS/Sheriffs com techs have no Idea are missing?

How do you stun a radio that you don't even know is being abused or misused?
Who CONFIRMS the person in possession of a radio is CLETS cleared....nobody?

When the cartels make billions a month on our local border...then a couple grand for access to a radio is chump change.
Who audits all these systems for DOJ Mandated compliance...nobody?

Please share you knowledge with me. I want to be educated.

"Officials" love to "leak" to the local media, and the local media salivates just to have accesss to a RCS radio "in da clear".

A search on the net for "drug cartel two-way radio systems" brings up some very elaborate systems right here in our back yard. I can promise 100% that the RCS encryption keys can be hacked and accessed by the cartels.

Remember the human element...money and influence talks.

Serious questions need to be answered about this false sense of "security" the RCS is selling.

This should be a fun discussion before the next RCS board meeting..."off agenda" of course!

Scan Sexy!
(pushing the purple button makes me feel better)

 

[d119]

Sounds to me like you're fairly knowledgeable about who has what and where.

Seems to me if I were responsible for investigating something like this, you're the first person I'd haul in.

Open mouth, insert foot? At this point, I think I'm done being a part of this discussion, you can hang yourself further without me.

 

[WayneH]

I can promise 100% that the RCS encryption keys can be hacked and accessed by the cartels.

This is non-sense. There's no "hacking" involved. Potentially someone with a key loader can share the key but otherwise you're heading into conspiracy theories. Lets keep things in the realm of reality for a change.

 

[inigo88]