Red 1 South Repeater

[jfab]

I've noticed the past couple days that the Red 1 South repeater seems to be acting like a simplex channel. I can't hear field units and can only hear dispatch. It's acting like the 154.325 freq, which is simplex. It's not happening on Central, and I can't speak for north as I rarely am in range of it.

Is anyone else experiencing this, or is it a problem on my end? I've experienced it on a few different radios in several different locations.

Any help appreciated! Thanks!

 

[RFsponge]

Fwiw

Last thursday (5 days ago as of this writing) I heard Boulder Dispatch tell all their field units that Red 1 South and Green South were going "down for maintenance" and that dispatch would only be able to hear Central and North repeaters.

Additionally, yesterday, there was a rescue for a fallen climber on the Flatirons where dispatch stated they would be unable to hear Red 5 which was assigned as the incident's Tac channel. Command had to relay info from the field through Red 1 to dispatch and a responding Pridemark ambulance. I honestly didn't look to see which repeater was being used.

Not sure what all this means, but maybe it can add a couple of pieces to the puzzle for you.

Rob

 

[nathancarlson]

Do Boulder countys radios need to be switched between the channels (Centeral, South, North) as they move throughout the county like they would for green link, or does this happen seamlessly without the user really noticing? Its been about eleven years since I've had a boulder county radio in my hand so i'm not sure how it works now. I know when I was using Red 1, we were mostly in the north part of the county (Longmont Emergency Unit) and my plectron pager seemed to be the "direct" frequency if I remember right. Just curious since you broght that up. And I mostly use the Central channels on my scanners even as I move throughout the county and they seem to come in really well on my end but I will start monitoring and find out what I hear.

 

[scanlist]

They began switching their repeaters to narrowband late last week.

If you have Uniden scanners switch all the Boulder County repeater freqs from FM to NFM.

I've resorted to using my BC296D at work since it does work properly for narrowband. Since the city of Boulder is still using the old wide band land mobile standard this radio also works properly in this mode as well and the audio levels are balanced as opposed to the city being way louder than the county as is the case with the PRO-106. For whaterver reason GRE's implementation for NFM fails miserably,

Since I do not own any of the current Uniden offerings I would hope that there current line of scanners works the way of their earlier high end scanners.

 

[jfab]

They began switching their repeaters to narrowband late last week.

If you have Uniden scanners switch all the Boulder County repeater freqs from FM to NFM.

I've resorted to using my BC296D at work since it does work properly for narrowband. Since the city of Boulder is still using the old wide band land mobile standard this radio also works properly in this mode as well and the audio levels are balanced as opposed to the city being way louder than the county as is the case with the PRO-106. For whaterver reason GRE's implementation for NFM fails miserably,

Since I do not own any of the current Uniden offerings I would hope that there current line of scanners works the way of their earlier high end scanners.

I had a feeling narrowband had something to do with it.

Any idea what the new rx freq is? I'm using moto radios, not scanners, so it's a little more difficult than changing from FM to NFM.

Thanks!

 

[jfab]

Do Boulder countys radios need to be switched between the channels (Centeral, South, North) as they move throughout the county like they would for green link, or does this happen seamlessly without the user really noticing? Its been about eleven years since I've had a boulder county radio in my hand so i'm not sure how it works now. I know when I was using Red 1, we were mostly in the north part of the county (Longmont Emergency Unit) and my plectron pager seemed to be the "direct" frequency if I remember right. Just curious since you broght that up. And I mostly use the Central channels on my scanners even as I move throughout the county and they seem to come in really well on my end but I will start monitoring and find out what I hear.

All three are separate repeaters and the user must switch between the three, depending on their location, etc. The voice pagers still run off the direct frequency (at least the ones in the agency I belong to do). Central seems to do well, even in the Broomfield, Northglenn, and even Denver areas the past couple days, although South is still my preference when I'm not in the city of Boulder or up in the canyon(s).

 

[soundchaser]

I had a feeling narrowband had something to do with it.

Any idea what the new rx freq is? I'm using moto radios, not scanners, so it's a little more difficult than changing from FM to NFM.

Thanks!

There is no new RX freq. Red 1 South (Thorodin) still has the field units, it's just that they are much quieter than the dispatcher.

Also, only South is affected at the present time. I assume that this is because Mt. Thorodin has better vehicle access in the summer since it's at 10,000 feet.

 

[soundchaser]

The Boulder County system is not just simply repeaters as we normally think of them. It's better to think of them as just transmitters. (This applies only to RED 1 and GREEN.)

In addition to receivers at the transmitter sites (Mead, Gunbarrel, and Mt Thorodin), there are a number of remote receive only stations spread throughout the county (Nederland, near Allenspark, and probably Lee Hill). These all feed into a voter system and the best receiver signal is fed to all three of the transmitter sites. This is why a Nederland fire unit will sound just fine on the Mead transmitter, which are at opposite corners of the county.

When someone switches their radio from South to Central, they are only changing the frequency (and PL tone) that the radio receives. The radio still transmits on 154.325 and is picked up by the best receiver according to the voter.

 

[jfab]

There is no new RX freq. Red 1 South (Thorodin) still has the field units, it's just that they are much quieter than the dispatcher.

Also, only South is affected at the present time. I assume that this is because Mt. Thorodin has better vehicle access in the summer since it's at 10,000 feet.

Forgive my ignorance, but if there is no new RX freq, why do my agencies radios need to be re-programmed?

 

[12dbsinad]

Forgive my ignorance, but if there is no new RX freq, why do my agencies radios need to be re-programmed?

The radios need to be reprogrammed to "switch" to narrowband operation. It has nothing to do with the actual frequency. Many people think that in order to go narrowband your frequency changes, that is not the case unless it changes for other reasons. Hope this helps!

 

[jfab]

The radios need to be reprogrammed to "switch" to narrowband operation. It has nothing to do with the actual frequency. Many people think that in order to go narrowband your frequency changes, that is not the case unless it changes for other reasons. Hope this helps!

That does help...so is there anything i can do on my end to fix this issue?

 

[scanlist]

The BLUE channel for Boulder PD (156.1350) switched to narrowband this afternoon.

It's safe to say that both Boulder County and the City of Boulder are practically narrowband from the repeater towers and base stations for dispatch simplex channels. Field units are, from the sounds of it, being reprogrammed if they haven't been already.

For jfab I cannot say for the other 2 moto radios you have it's my understanding that HT1000 radios with model numbers ending in "DN" only are programmable for narrowband compliance.

 

[MikeyB]

In general will narrowband be able to be heard from a further or shorter distance than wideband, all other things equal?

 

[Thayne]

From what I have seen so far, probably a little shorter, since the deviation is less, but if the receivers could be made made more sensitive & selective then maybe it wouldn't be noticeable.

Anyone else want to chime in?

 

[jimmnn]

We will see this narrow banding everywhere folks that are still on VHF at least as it's a federal mandate by the end of 2012 I believe.

Jim<

 

[nathancarlson]

with the narrowband, won't this affect the frequency? Boulder Fire on NFM 151.3775 is out of the range on my ham radio since 2.5 Khz steps are not allowed but the imput freq works. On my pro-106 it will take the freq. and I can set the mode to NFM.

One of the advantages to keeping my old scanners around and in use was Boulder County so I hate to see them make changes that will make those scanners obsolte for Public Safety. Hopefully it will improve communications though, and possibly get rid of the annoying "feedback" sound on the green channels.

 

[soundchaser]

with the narrowband, won't this affect the frequency? Boulder Fire on NFM 151.3775 is out of the range on my ham radio since 2.5 Khz steps are not allowed but the imput freq works. On my pro-106 it will take the freq. and I can set the mode to NFM.

One of the advantages to keeping my old scanners around and in use was Boulder County so I hate to see them make changes that will make those scanners obsolte for Public Safety. Hopefully it will improve communications though, and possibly get rid of the annoying "feedback" sound on the green channels.

Narrowbanding doesn't have to affect the frequency, but sometimes the opportunity exists to get a new frequency. For example Gilpin County changed the input frequency to one of their repeaters because they had a lot of interference. If you have to reprogram all of the radios for narrowband or buy new repeaters, it makes sense to make any changes to frequencies at the same time.

I've spot checked some of the Boulder County FCC licenses and they have the narrowband emissions designator on the existing frequencies, so there shouldn't be many frequency changes, if at all. This is good news for me since one of the scanners in my arsenal is a Realistic Pro-2020.

 

[scanlist]

with the narrowband, won't this affect the frequency?

Only if the licesnsee changes it. In the case of Boulder and Boulder County all they are changing is the mode of transmission not the actual transmit frequency.

Boulder Fire on NFM 151.3775 is out of the range on my ham radio since 2.5 Khz steps are not allowed but the imput freq works.

Set your receive to either 151.375 or 151.380 your radio should have no trouble receiving it. Boulder FIRE-1 uses 155.4375 as the repeater in frequency. I have yet to see a VHF ham transceiver spec'd with narrowband receive outside of 2 meters. If there is one out there it would be interest to me.

On my pro-106 it will take the freq. and I can set the mode to NFM.

True though there is no improvement in the audio level switching it to NFM as trying to monitor both NFM and FM in the past and during this current transition. FM audio is still twice as loud as NFM add monitoring digital with the same result in digital being way louder than NFM.

As mentioned in my earlier post Uniden was ahead of the narrowband game with the BC296D and 796D. Anyone with a Uniden 396, 996 or HP-1 able to confirm they incorporated this method in these newer generation scanners.

One of the advantages to keeping my old scanners around and in use was Boulder County so I hate to see them make changes that will make those scanners obsolte for Public Safety.

Other than having to turn the volume up louder on older scanners there's no reason to write them off. Since this area is mainly DTRS I don't see wall to wall channel crowding on high VHF here.

 

[jfab]

For jfab I cannot say for the other 2 moto radios you have it's my understanding that HT1000 radios with model numbers ending in "DN" only are programmable for narrowband compliance.

Yes, all my current moto radios will do narrowband, including the "DN" HT1000.

I am not noticing the volume issue everyone is mentioning. Dispatch still comes in at the same volume. And field units do not come in at all. Volume does not seem to be an issue because their transmissions aren't even making it to my radio.

Its sure going to make it difficult responding on calls when I/we can't hear the field units....

 

[scanlist]

Ok so what site(s) are you listening to? I hear everything on the Central (Gunbarrel) and South (Thorodin) repeaters dispatch and units in the field fine even up here in Greeley. Same goes for the City of Boulder.

The Mead site has never been readable up here so I cannot say if there's issues with that site currently.

Since all your radios are narrowband compliant they just need to be reprogrammed by whoever it is that programs your moto radios.