Repeater Etiquette? ...

[cmeisenzahl]

As a new Tech I've been trying to be considerate and tread-lightly as I use area repeaters. Over the weekend I printed out a few brief guides to proper etiquette when using 2M repeaters.

But I wonder, with respect to your local 2M repeaters, what are your pet-peeves? I'd like to make sure I'm not doing any of them.

Thanks,

Chris
The Pretense of Knowledge | A Shout-Out To F.A. Hayek …

 

[zz0468]

...But I wonder, with respect to your local 2M repeaters, what are your pet-peeves? I'd like to make sure I'm not doing any of them...

Here's my list, in no particular order...

1. Non-members attempting to used closed or private membership systems
2. Calling "cq" on a repeater.
3. CB lingo and operating style.
4. Kerchunking without ID.
5. Signal reports saying things like "You're S9 on the meter!"
6. Conversations that are rated anything beyond PG13.

Hope that helps!

 

[LtDoc]

Chris,
I'm probably not the best one to be recommending behavior, so take this for what it's worth. The easiest -general- rule is to just be polite. I tend to treat people on repeaters as I would if facing them on the street. That depends on who/what/where I am, and usually means acting as the others there act. Sort of stay 'on topic', if that makes sense. Moderation is a good idea until you figure out the way things are 'done' on particular repeaters, or in any conversation. Sort of 'go with the flow'. If that 'flow' doesn't suit you, then just go somewhere else. A very good idea is to 'keep it clean', sort of. Never know who'z listening.
Nothing specific here, just a generalization...
- 'Doc

 

[hockeyshrink]

In addition to what zz said, on my club's machine the following are not well received:

1. Calling for a "radio" or "signal check" prior to contact. You enter the repeater by stating only your call sign, followed by "mobile" or "portable" if applicable. Old timers get away with also saying "listening repeat," but not noob's.

2. Saying "over" at the end of your transmission. That's HF phone or perhaps simplex procedure, not on a repeater.

3. Using Q signals. I was lazy once and asked someone their handle and QTH. I immediately received a phone call and was told I was a lid. Q's are for CW.

4. Any discussion of politics, religion, or alcohol. (there is another place for that, lol)

5. Long ragchews.

I think that's the main stuff that gets people deemed "persona non grata" on this repeater. The expectation of behavior is somewhat "businesslike." It is a very old and established club.

All that said, down the road there is a repeater that tends to be a little "looser" in culture, where folks kid and joke around with each other more; however, it is also more "cliquish."

LtDoc is right...there is always somewhere else that may fit you better, but the golden rule applies - Assume the world is listening to you, because it is.

 

[W2NJS]

Add to the above items, stating your callsign or, worse, the other station's and your callsign at the end of every transmission. Big waste of air time and breath.

 

[kb2vxa]

"Old timers get away with also saying "listening repeat," but not noob's."

Eh, maybe we're a bunch of OTs around here because the accepted way of "calling CQ" on a repeater is (callsign), listening. Then comes the tricky part, to join in an ongoing QSO on HF, VHF/UHF simplex or a repeater is to wait for a break between stations and interject your callsign only. Then it's up to them, if they want to hear from you they'll acknowledge your callsign, then you wait to be called, or the next one in line will turn it over to you. I wouldn't do it twice thinking I wasn't heard, that is unless I doubled and hear someone already transmitting when I released the PTT switch, I would assume they don't want their QSO broken so being polite I would just move on.

Oh, NJS made an important point. Unlike HF where protocols are rather strict VHF/UHF operation is casual so the 10 minute ID rule takes over from the callsigns at the beginning and end of each transmission custom usually but not always observed on HF.
"Big waste of air time and breath."
Not to mention very annoying.

 

[canav844]

Listen to a conversation or two first to pickup on the nuances of the local etiquette it varies machine to machine.

My pet peeves would be cutesy phonetics when I'm trying to understand what your call is (there's several common variations on the International or the public safety name phonetics either is fine, but obscure words that make a funny sentence make me ask you to repeat the call, this is extra important during weather and safety nets when airtime is a precious resource!)

Let the repeater hang time drop before keying up, otherwise the Time-out-Timer doesn't reset, and after two or three back and forths the conversation cuts out; it also gives stations trying to get into a conversation a chance to throw their call in.

 

[kn0bdy]

Thanks for the post. being a noob to EchoLink it is very helpful.

 

[N4JKD]

Another is arguing.....irks me because A. We are amateur radio operators, we are supposed to be professional and polite and a service when need. B. As mentioned, these frequencies can be heard for around 100 miles on other ham radios and scanners, and it gives all ham operators a bad name. C. If you want to argue, get your general class liicense and go to 80 meters, there is plenty of people to argue with.

The best thing to do is, if you feel like someone wants to argue, or if someone says something that you think my be offensive and rubs you and possibly others the wrong way, ask that station to call you via telephone or email, because on the V/UHF frequencies is not the place for it.

A local ham here always says "If you cant go anywhere else, go to an odd simplex channel" Simply because these frequencies are not used all time.

 

[KB0OXD]

Another is arguing.....irks me because A. We are amateur radio operators, we are supposed to be professional and polite and a service when need. B. As mentioned, these frequencies can be heard for around 100 miles on other ham radios and scanners, and it gives all ham operators a bad name. C. If you want to argue, get your general class liicense and go to 80 meters, there is plenty of people to argue with.

Better yet - GET A CB RADIO !!!!!

The best thing to do is, if you feel like someone wants to argue, or if someone says something that you think my be offensive and rubs you and possibly others the wrong way, ask that station to call you via telephone or email, because on the V/UHF frequencies is not the place for it.

Better yet IGNORE HIM/HER & DO NOT FEED THE TROLL !!!!!

A local ham here always says "If you cant go anywhere else, go to an odd simplex channel" Simply because these frequencies are not used all time.

To argue with another Ham, it's not worth it.

Just my opinion....

Cheers & 73

 

[KC0FZZ]

My biggest ones:

People (other than the repeater trustee) who act like drill sergeants, busting new hams chops over minor transgressions and driving them away from a hobby (that needs as much new blood as possible) by giving them too cold a reception.

People who think that they know best as to what acceptable conversation is on a frequency/repeater that hasn't had a conversation in nearly two weeks time. Ragchews, conversations that wouldn't be welcome in the most fundy of Baptist churches, etc... I once had a new user on a system admonish me for "adult conversation" when I was discussing going to a bar for a couple beers after we'd gotten done at the local firing range. What a tosser.

People who hold all the information about their repeaters from active club members and discourage experimentation. "You don't need to know what those functions are/what those frequencies are/what those tones do." Such elitest behavior only encourages function hacking.

People who, in times when there's NOT an emergency, take their HOBBY wayyy too seriously. Yeah, we offer a public service in times of need. Yeah, when TSHTF, we're gonna be needed in a major way, but if we drive everyone away with the above mentioned behaviors, there won't be anyone left to "man the EOC" once all the cranky old guard operators who got their beginnings in the days of spark have died off.

So, RELAX. Have fun! Enjoy your hobby! Go to the meetings and the events and ask questions! If the holders of the sacred frequency appear to be too aloof, take your membership dollars to a more friendly machine. The cranky old fart net will eventually go away to make room for the new blood.

 

[KC0FZZ]

As a new Tech I've been trying to be considerate and tread-lightly as I use area repeaters. Over the weekend I printed out a few brief guides to proper etiquette when using 2M repeaters.

But I wonder, with respect to your local 2M repeaters, what are your pet-peeves? I'd like to make sure I'm not doing any of them.

Thanks,

Chris
The Pretense of Knowledge | A Shout-Out To F.A. Hayek …

I'll add this in another post, simply for linearity: from what you originally posted it sounds like you're doing everything right. Read the books, learn the ins and outs about what the local repeaters find acceptable. Asking questions about what is acceptable.

Here's one other trick-listen. Sit back and listen to the frequency for a while and learn the lay of the land-how the local operators act on the air. Then try to emulate their etiquette as closely as possible without seeming to mock them.

 

[N4JKD]

As mentioned, sounds like you are doing everything right. The biggest annoyance to me, as mentioned also is the repeater police or "killowatt cop" as mentioned. I was on a repeater near here once and talking to another ham in the area, and a jerk ham comes in and says "get off our repeater with this nonsense." I politely chime in and remind him what the FCC rules say about the use of open repeaters, than he smarts off, and I told him that him and his club can take that repeater and shove it. Mind you, I was a new ham, but that's beside the point. I have learned today that if someone comes in and gets ugly, ignore them. Don't give them the spotlight....I keep on until they turn the repeater off. Nothing I am saying is violating rules or etiquette, so why not keep going? Unless it is an emergency, or someone politely breaks in to use the repeater, there should be no problems.

If you can take the conversation to simplex, that's the best bet! No repeaters, no kilowatt cop to turn a repeater off on you, and nobody can't shut you down. Its unfortunate that old hams say they want new blood, but expect new hams to bow to their demands and rules. The way I see it, remember what you learned before taking your exam, listen to how others talk, and do the same, and you can't go wrong.

 

[Daniel_Boone]

I might have made a similar post a couple of months ago on this forum.

I guess the answer to this question is two edged - due to the fact that some repeaters are now linked together in such a way that when you are talking on one repeater - you are actually working 40 - 50 repeaters.

The problem then becomes that you are now dealing with many repeater owners and not just one or two.

Very few club repeaters are closed - due to the fact that anyone that knows or can read the PL Tones - can use the repeater until told not to use it.
Most repeater owners will not do that to you.

If a repeater is closed - chances are - you don't want to talk on it anyways.
It just ends up being one big buddy club and the issue with that is - anyone that isn't in the buddy club - probably will not be accepted unless invited to join the conversation.

In my situation - when that happens - I say screw em and just delete the frequency.
Those people are not the ones you want to associate with anyways.

When it comes to VOiP - you need to realize that owning a repeater for those people is a power trip.
It makes them feel important.
The only thing you can do there is find a repeater that is not in use and make your own buddy club or keep studying and get your general ticket and move up to the HF where you can act as big of an idiot as you wish.

Repeater owners once threatened to throw me off their repeater.
Then they got real smart and started calling the people who associated with me and encouraged them not to help me anymore.
Some of them has since bad mouthed me and I don't even get the club news letter anymore.
So the bottom line is - the mouth is mightier then the sword, and if they want to get back at you - they will figure out a way of doing it.

So the bottom line is - don't CQ - listen.
If someone asks for someone to talk to - reply.
If no one asks to talk - just sit and listen.
In time - you will figure out which people is the bung holes and you will decide if you wish to talk to them or not. Most times the best policy is to avoid those people - because chances are - they are not real hams anyways. Just people that wants to blab on the 2 meters...
They act as if they own the frequency.
IN actual reality - no one owns any frequency.

If you push them far enough - they will call the FCC on you.
The problem then becomes - the FCC usually has to decide what to do - because in the end, sometimes the people who are complaining is breaking the rules more then the new ham - who maybe made one mistake or talked out of turn and started the whole ruckus in the first place.

There is a whole section in Part 97 that explains the whole situation.

Might I suggest to anyone that is having a problem to READ ( PART 97 ) OF THE FCC RULES BOOK!

 

[N4JKD]

I might have made a similar post a couple of months ago on this forum.

I guess the answer to this question is two edged - due to the fact that some repeaters are now linked together in such a way that when you are talking on one repeater - you are actually working 40 - 50 repeaters.

The problem then becomes that you are now dealing with many repeater owners and not just one or two.

Very few club repeaters are closed - due to the fact that anyone that knows or can read the PL Tones - can use the repeater until told not to use it.
Most repeater owners will not do that to you.

If a repeater is closed - chances are - you don't want to talk on it anyways.
It just ends up being one big buddy club and the issue with that is - anyone that isn't in the buddy club - probably will not be accepted unless invited to join the conversation.

In my situation - when that happens - I say screw em and just delete the frequency.
Those people are not the ones you want to associate with anyways.

When it comes to VOiP - you need to realize that owning a repeater for those people is a power trip.
It makes them feel important.
The only thing you can do there is find a repeater that is not in use and make your own buddy club or keep studying and get your general ticket and move up to the HF where you can act as big of an idiot as you wish.

Repeater owners once threatened to throw me off their repeater.
Then they got real smart and started calling the people who associated with me and encouraged them not to help me anymore.
Some of them has since bad mouthed me and I don't even get the club news letter anymore.
So the bottom line is - the mouth is mightier then the sword, and if they want to get back at you - they will figure out a way of doing it.

So the bottom line is - don't CQ - listen.
If someone asks for someone to talk to - reply.
If no one asks to talk - just sit and listen.
In time - you will figure out which people is the bung holes and you will decide if you wish to talk to them or not. Most times the best policy is to avoid those people - because chances are - they are not real hams anyways. Just people that wants to blab on the 2 meters...
They act as if they own the frequency.
IN actual reality - no one owns any frequency.

If you push them far enough - they will call the FCC on you.
The problem then becomes - the FCC usually has to decide what to do - because in the end, sometimes the people who are complaining is breaking the rules more then the new ham - who maybe made one mistake or talked out of turn and started the whole ruckus in the first place.

There is a whole section in Part 97 that explains the whole situation.

Might I suggest to anyone that is having a problem to READ ( PART 97 ) OF THE FCC RULES BOOK!

Sad but true, and this is why I believe repeaters are so quiet today. So many people quick bypass the tech and go for the general to get on HF, and not deal with repeaters. I enjoy the local repeaters, and while somethings have gotten out of hand, most of the time, it is ended on repeaters and dealt with via telephone or email. Its unfortunate that the "Buddy system" happens in ham radio, but it does.

 

[nd5y]

Let the repeater hang time drop before keying up, otherwise the Time-out-Timer doesn't reset, and after two or three back and forths the conversation cuts out;

That isn't necessarily true.
All repeaters are not configured the same way.
They can have no hang time or 5 or 10 seconds or more.
Normally you set the TOT to either reset when the squelch closes or the time between the squelch closing and the idiot tone (courtesy tone).
I depends on what kind of controller the repeater has and how the owner set it up.

 

[zz0468]

Now that we have thoroughly intimidated the OP into NEVER getting on the air, it should probably be said that all repeaters have their own personalities and operating styles. Listen around and find what you like, get the feel for how the locals do it on that particular repeater, and THEN join in. If you sound like you know what you're doing, you'll be much more welcomed.

 

[zz0468]

A few comments are in order...

I guess the answer to this question is two edged - due to the fact that some repeaters are now linked together in such a way that when you are talking on one repeater - you are actually working 40 - 50 repeaters.

The problem then becomes that you are now dealing with many repeater owners and not just one or two.

Generally, if a system that large is linked full time, any various owners are operating under similar guidelines, because a large system like that will operate as a single wide-area coverage repeater. So, dealing with multiple owners isn't as much of an issue as it would at first appear. One caveat about that, though, is that many such systems are private, or require membership.

Very few club repeaters are closed - due to the fact that anyone that knows or can read the PL Tones - can use the repeater until told not to use it.
Most repeater owners will not do that to you.

That depends on the band, and the area of the country. In the west, many club repeaters ARE closed to members only, particularly above 220.

If a repeater is closed - chances are - you don't want to talk on it anyways.
It just ends up being one big buddy club and the issue with that is - anyone that isn't in the buddy club - probably will not be accepted unless invited to join the conversation.

That becomes a matter of personal preference. If you're particularly technically oriented, and prefer to talk with like-minded people, sometimes a closed repeater is the best option. Listen around, and when you hear something you'd like to join, figure out how one goes about it.

In my situation - when that happens - I say screw em and just delete the frequency.
Those people are not the ones you want to associate with anyways.

Sometimes the feeling is mutual, but really, it gets down to having something in common with the membership at large. If the membership comprises of broadcast engineers, rocket scientists and nuclear researchers, chances are they don't want to spend their free time talking to the local ham who's a Walmart greeter full time. Cliquish? Maybe, but realistically, people want to talk to people who are interesting to them.

Repeater owners once threatened to throw me off their repeater.
Then they got real smart and started calling the people who associated with me and encouraged them not to help me anymore.
Some of them has since bad mouthed me and I don't even get the club news letter anymore.

What's the other half of that story???

 

[W4BOZ]

My pet peeve would have to be what the group of repeater misfits that I used to chat with regularly would call Manual Trunking. This refers to a new operator that wants you to switch to every single machine they can hit with their HT and the stock duck to give them a signal check on another repeater they just discovered.

 

[cmeisenzahl]

Great thread and info, thanks guys. ;-)